Mario Goveia wrote: Unfortunately, there are also some RG and "deshi" NRG chest-thumpers who have decided that "foren" NRGs are a bigger problem than the corruption and mess in Goa, who are completely wasting their time and energy and deflecting attention from what needs to be done.
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:42:45 +0530 From: Tony de Sa <tonyde...@gmail.com> No all NRGs are not a problem - only those who think most self-conceitedly that they are the repositories of sanity and wisdom, blah, blah, blah on Goanet and strew their free advice freely. Mario responds: Tony, you are not getting it. To begin with, I did not say you said that "all" NRGs are a problem. You and Samir apparently think the NRGs who are trying to help Goa are a bigger problem than the corruption and mess in Goa. If you RGs knew what the heck you were doing, we would not even be having this discussion. All NRGs could have come to Goa and had a good time, which I still do, instead of wasting their time and energy and money like Rajan, Carmen, George, Arwin, etc. Tony wrote: If we RGs are wasting our energy and time, isn't that our business and prerogative? What is the NRGs perception of what needs to be done is not necessarily our perception. Mario responds: Yes, it is your prerogative to go back to sleep and allow the mess to grow. On the other hand, it is the prerogative of the NRGs who are motivated to try and help change things for the better, sometimes based on their experiences in countries that are much better managed, sometimes by simply using common sense that seems to have eluded so many RGs. Tony wrote: And don't the NRGs contribute to a fair share of the corruption? Take the guy from his overseas home who comes on a two week holiday to Goa. He suddenly discovers that the old homestead is now worth a bundle and he needs to dispose of it! He is in a rush - so much to do, so little time. So he toodles off to his friendly Talathi/Panchayat Secretary/Mamlatdar and quietly slips him Rs. 10,000/- After all what is 200 odd Amriki dollars? Now who is promoting corruption. Mario responds: Are individuals selling their property the corruption that is making a mess in Goa, or what the buyers are then doing with the property, which is where you RGs have been asleep at the switch? Mario previously wrote: No, it is not true that only RGs can do something about it as George Pinto and Rajan Parrikar and Anil Desai, three "foren" NRGs, have already demonstrated by their stellar work in Goa. Other "foren" NRG's like Arwin Mesquita are confronting Goan legislators and Carmen Miranda is trying to light a fire under local RGs. All this at remarkable personal cost in terms of time and money. Tony replied: Do you selectively read posts? Haven't I commended doers like George Pinto in my previous post when I mentioned adnauseam that if you love Goa, translate your words into action and don't mealy mouth unwanted, condescending advice to the RGs. Unless NRGs have the power of the vote and in substantial quantity, voting patterns will follow traditional lines. We are the voters. Non-national NRGs cannot change this. Mario responds: So, I see that you selectively commend NRGs whom you like. I guess you think Rajan, Carmen, Arwin, Anil, etc. are spending their precious time and money because they don't love Goa, and just want to show the Goan peasants how smart they are. I don't think you know these people. No one who lives in "foren" wastes their time and money carelessly. But, you have finally put your finger on the problem. It is you RG voters who are the primary problem, which is what I have been saying all along. Nothing is going to seriously change until you stop electing and re-electing corrupt politicians. Even a few to start with would be good. Mario previously wrote: I'll give you an example based on the reality of India. India was going nowhere during its first 50 years since Independence. Corruption and waste at all levels was rampant and Indians were draining at an alarming rate to the benefit of other countries. Then suddenly the founding families were gone and common sense began to assert itself in the form of new leadership like Manmohan Singh and Sonia Gandhi, who doesn't get enough credit in my opinion for exerting tremendous positive leadership while knowing when to grab the limelight and when to step back and let others get the limelight. Look at the difference this has made to India's economy in just a few years even with the old line communists in their coalition trying desperately to drag them back. Tony replied: Manmohan and Sonia are hardly NRIs in the context of this discussion? Pretty dumb if you think so. So also you prove my point that only RIs and RGs can make an effective change. Mario responds: Tony, let go of that bull's shempdi or you will hurt yourself:-)) The point I was making was that: a) India was a mess because of Nehru's socialist policies that resulted in mindless bureaucracy and corruption like bribery, tax evasion and black money, and resources wasted in government run industries for 50 years since independence. b) People of good will and common sense like Manmohan Singh and Sonia Gandhi have turned things around quite quickly, even though the residual bureaucracy and communist coalition partners are slowing them down. c) Manmohan is smart enough that he takes all kinds of advice from NRIs and even pushed through the OCI that gives Samir heartburn to encourage NRIs to participate in improving India. c) Goa can change too if you elect a few people with good will and common sense like local versions of Manmohan Singh and Sonia Gandhi. Mario previously wrote: There is corruption from time to time in the countries you have listed. The difference you seem to be missing is that, in the west, when corruption is found the perpetrators are prosecuted and brought to justice. Taking millions just to liquidate a company may look corrupt to you, but if it was done legally, it could not correctly be described as corrupt in proper context. Tony replied: You miss the point that India, and by implication Goa has a rule of law. In India if you are caught, you are penalized after due processes of law. Even Kasab accused of heinous crimes against the nation has a trial. How many of the KKKlaners gave poor Negros the benefit of a fair trial? Or the Injuns? Remember, the only good Injun is a dead Injun. Mario responds: Tony, you need to stop reading western novels. The KKK was like a white version of the RSS. They never had any government or legal power and are effectively out of business. There are plenty of good Injuns around who are not dead. If you had any kind of effective legal system in Goa why is there so much bribery and corruption going on? You yourself gave an example of bribery. Your friend George Pinto describes anything he doesn't like in Goa as "illegal". Mario previously wrote: This is a false description of what happened. It was Emperor Hirohito and the Japanese leadership who were responsible for the casualties at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Tony replied: Utter kibosh. This is all American propaganda. History is written by the victors. The Americans just wanted to evaluate the atomic bomb in a field trial. Mario responds: In that case, I get to write the history. It was a pretty effective field trial, wasn't it? Stopped a four year war in four days and saved a lot of lives on our side. Unfortunately it took the intransigence of the Japanese leaders and two bombs to get it through their heads that they were toast. They could have saved lots of lives if they had not attacked Pearl Harbor in the first place. Mario previously wrote: If the RG's wake up and start doing something tangible, all the NRGs can can happily go back to their comfort zones. I'm sure Rajan, Carmen, Arwin, et. al. have other good uses for their time. Tony replied: Have we RGs prevented you from going back to your comfort zones? Certainly, Rajan, Carmen and Arwin have better use of their time and they spend part of it on Goanet. And since when has Rajan or Arwin or Carmen for that matter appointed you their spokesman. Mario responds: To begin with, I am the lone voice on Goanet for reason, truth and peace. Secondly, they are going to get a bill for these services:-)) Mario previously wrote: You are right. It would hurt my pride if I had to lick any "foren" boots like the RG's did before 1961. Tony replied: You make a sweeping generalization. Not all RGs were bootlickers. You insult us NRGs. How would you like it if I said all NRGs lick white boots? Mario responds: You are correct. Only those who were Portuguese stooges were the boot lickers. What was I thinking? Some of my own relatives were freedom fighters. My whole family were warned not to go to Goa until it was cleared of colonist vermin. The non-American NRGs can speak for themselves. All I know is that the boots of Indian-Americans are in great demand by bootlickers in America. Mario previously wrote: Once again, you are wrong on your facts. I'll let the others speak for themselves, but American NRI's are one of the top three most affluent communities when ranked by family income in America, the other two being Japanese and Filipinos. Tony replied: That may be. But you black skinned American/ Britisher/ Australian/ Canadian just try buying property in a WASP only locality. Racial prejudice may not be overt but it is still there. You are still a 'second class' citizen no matter how you console yourself. Mario responds: Once again, the Brits, Australians and Canadians can speak for themselves, but dark skinned Indians live in the most affluent areas in every part of America. There is no such thing as a WASP-only locality in the US. It would be illegal for one thing. If you came here I could show you. Mario previously wrote: Even Bill Clinton has his offices in Harlem. Harlem is about as safe in the middle of the night than any beach in Goa:-)) Tony replied: Bill Clinton may be safe in Harlem or Bronx or Central Park. But then he is Bill Clinton the husband of Secretary of State Hillary with oodles of Black cat/ z class or what ever goes for FBI security. But is Mario Gouveia? Come clean. Mario responds: I always visit Harlem when I am in New York because some of the best music is to be found there. The brothers treat me like one of them because they want my business. Of course I could run into a druggie who needs a fix, but I have that same risk whenever I visit Goa, even in my own neighborhood of Miramar Beach, even with Babush as a neighbor:-)) Mario previously wrote: Home is where the heart is, Tony. But, you are absolutely correct. There's no place like Goa at the moment, which is precisely why you need every bit of the help being offered by the NRGs to clean up the mess. Tony replied: I am glad that for once you agree with me. There is no place like the quote"mess" unquote that is Goa and despite the "corruption" and all its irritants. Unfortunately, the type of help that you are offering - carping, cribbing and grumbling about Goa is what we can do without. Help like that from Rajan Parrikar, George Pinto, Arwin Mesquita and countless others who try to do their best with positive inputs is what we will always appreciate and applaud. Do gooders who only spout platitudes is what we can do without. Mario responds: If by "carping, cribbing and grumbling" you mean reminding RGs of who was asleep while the mess was being made, and need to wake up, I plead guilty. If by "carping, cribbing and grumbling" you mean getting you RGs to stop attacking NRGs for trying to wake you up after another long siesta after the CRZ protests, I plead guilty. If you appreciate Rajan, Carmen, George, Arwin, Anil and others like them, then my work is done. I only got involved because you and Samir were inexplicably attacking NRGs for tring to help you. Maybe, your next lengthy "sermao" should be addressed to Samir.
