Hi Mervyn, Thought I'd share my two bits. This will be a bit long, but offer a few trajectories. Besides the thoughts go beyond this post, but lets maintain the thread.
These discussions go through phases of articulation -- rhetoric, layered in their connotation and denotation. Marlon was striking hard but his intent was not to be mean although he came close to it. Communication is hard enough, and often the most smartest, educated in English no less find it difficult to comprehend intent. Certain things do not go together -- ribbing, as well as wanting to know, dissect, etc. Its needs that peculiar Goan skill often used in the past to hide ones weaknesses. That skill helped, emboldened and made many wealthy. But no one will say they came from that stock. That is a whole other level soul-searching and memoir material. Or best left quiet. There is something very peculiar how many of these discussions proceed. Analogies are not easy to make, and worse when one gets into extrapolated ones. To my mind all that Vivian was doing was sharing his pleasure (or whatever inner motivation) at seeing Goans having won awards from the British. All it takes is to accept that, second that response and then state ones misgivings in a contextual vein. It may sound simplistic, but helps -- and surely if we keep on babbling about Goan this and that. Or, change the discussion by introducing the contrary version under its own merit. This is just one way, and NOT necessarily intended for everyone. In any case, we are talking of intelligent people. But more often than not, discussions on Goanet seem to elicit opinions that ingratiatingly have go deeper. Discussions as such, a topic, a thread must be allowed to have its own material reality, based on the post as well as the contributer (If one knows who. But it helps to be able read the tenor of the post, and not ignore that.). Perhaps this is being too Christian dialectically! Too often, its about getting to any particular persons notion of the truth, a mining -- the entrails to be digested upon later. Some can stand it, most not; others do not know how to engage those paradigms! But then one must also develop techniques, and at least with age to simply say. Yes, good point mine was a nod to their love of work. And move on. Let larger debates rage among those who want to pit themselves and their knowledge. Very rarely does one see a retraction. Even those have had a facetious quality. Besides why so few people even seconding something contained in any given post. My experience has been similar on Gmail chat with fellow Goans. Its about wanting to know where one stands on many issues -- on certain terms, and in depth and one has to be clear, terribly clear. No wonder much of Goan narrative in various forms, reveal too easily, rather than being nuanced. I can say this being one involved in artistic labour and having observed things. Even precise suggestions, are not taken well; because, the other has already made up their mind. Success of various sorts only helps in solidifying ones belief in being right. It is about making those not intellectually minded, open themselves further. Its easy to realize, or feel at some point that one may have been used for reasons outside ones comprehension. Age old questions to be asked of the human condition! Now here the word, intellectual could be misunderstood! But yet, such forums strengthen us; in the vagaries of our notions of modernity. Being on Goanet have helped me for sure. In the past I truly believed that people did not know many things. And they did not, since they did not have Dads who were engine drivers, lived in colonies like ours, getting caught up in things, a very different interaction with a whole gamut of Hindus, besides living with a Hindu family for many years, etc. In any case, all that is not enough, and all of it has been said anyway. Then at some point one becomes aware. Who posts what (not the entire gang)? Who talks to me outside of the forum? Who asks for what, and on what basis? Who suggest what without offering a suggestion even upon inquiry? Who if at all recommends one for anything -- point in a direction? This list, not intended to be used against the writer of this post, nor to discern anything more. Its all self-contained. As time goes by, one has changed. All of us, our parents and families did not have the opportunity (an easy word to misunderstand) to mingle with foreign Civil Services, people in the upper strata, finish school, have a college education. All this comes in the mix, and all of it is being played out. One is only as good as what one brings to the table. So see it in that light too. I am not saying you are feeble in your reasoning, and not versed in contrapuntal verbal conceptual gymnastics. But again, see it in that light I have attempted to present my views. Best, ++++++++++++ venantius j pinto > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 14:06:39 +0000 > From: "Mervyn & Elsie Maciel" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Goanet] British awards for Goans in East Africa Message > Message-ID: > <CAL65L0virWhF0dam+sY5f3XPi+CqV=htr9d5egl7ppxoox3...@mail.gmail.com > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Apologies for prolonging this topic, Fred, but there are a few points I'd > like to clear. > I never felt that the African ire was directed at us, WaGoa(as we were > known), but rather at > the Wahindi(Asian businessmen), who openly exploited the illiterate African > masses > especially in the Reserves(districts). A couple of post-Uhuru(independence) > African > Provincial Commissioners I knew always spoke very favourably of us, > especially of the help > they'd received from us in the Civil Service. One of them was kind enough > to visit me during > his trip to the U.K. some years go.(Would he have bothered if we were > "exploiters"??). > As for Marlon's rather flippant comments, all I can say is - there were > no "quislings" > in the Colonial Kenya Civil Service I belonged to. > If we are to continue this discussion, can I please request that we do so > in a civil > and gentlemanly manner? Where, may I ask, was the need to bring in Vivian's > "beautiful property" and "illicit wealth" when the topic under discussion > is "British > awards for Goans in East Africa? > If there are old scores to be settled, please keep them out of this > public forum. > > > > Mervyn Maciel > > > ------------------------------ > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Protect Goa's natural beauty Support Goa's first Tiger Reserve Sign the petition at: http://www.goanet.org/petition/petition.php ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
