My dear VRR, My previous post (as this one) while in response to your post, is directed generally and not to any particular individual.
I believe that ANYONE who asks for proof of rape 50 years post de facto, should be ashamed of himself or herself; this is specially so IF that person has expressed NO outrage at the gang-rapes and ALL the other rapes and consequent-further abuse (at the hands of the police) upon reporting, and the eventual suicides; Unless, of course, we have not been following what is being reported in the mainstream Indian media for a good number of years. VRR, you yourself have written about 2 rapes. Not very sure how you substantiated those allegations. Even during the best of times, these allegations were very difficult to substantiate until DNA testing became available. I hope we are of the view that they two TOO many rapes? Even then, the challenge occurred wrt consent. And If the woman was sexually active antes, consent was almost automatically assumed. Would anything have been achieved IF "we" had approached the courts in 1962, apart from destroying the women even further? Do we know WHAT a woman has to undergo even in Goa 2013, in order to prove that she was raped? My guess is that the hapless woman will be examined, reexamined and re-reexamined vaginally by a whole slew of doctors, most of whom have neither the experience nor the sensitivity of handling such cases. I know a case in which a Pharmacologist was part of such a panel ! BTW: Would the courts even hear these cases? Do we know of ANY of the uniformed-bandukwallas ever having been tried in civilian courts? Would (say) a physician accused of raping a client expect to be tried by a Medical Board and NOT by the usual law courts? ALL that having been noted, did "we" just ignore the point relating to Self Determination by the People? Is that NOT the underlying issue here? jc On Jan 6, 2013, at 10:33 AM, "[email protected] <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', '[email protected]');>" <[email protected] <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', '[email protected]');>> wrote: My dear Jose Colaco, Over the years I have come to regard you as the mini-Socrates of our age, asking sharp questions in order to finally uncover the truth. I too seek the truth, in my own way, and am prepared to enter into a reasonable debate with you. But a respondent made an unsupported statement about rapes, and I challenged it. Now you ask me to be ashamed of myself? I have nothing to be ashamed of in my life, and hope I never will. Very best regards, Victor. -----Original Message----- From: J. Colaco < jc> <[email protected] <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', '[email protected]');>> To: Santosh Helekar <[email protected] <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', '[email protected]');>>; Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! < [email protected] <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', '[email protected]');>> Sent: Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:19 pm Subject: [Goanet] GOA LIBERATION RETROSPECT Adv. Antonio Lobo On Sunday, 6 January 2013, Santosh Helekar wrote: Those who were loyal to Portugal and the Portuguese government claimed that rapes were being committed by Indians even before the invasion of 1961 - indeed, as early as 1958, according to one loyalist writer. On the other hand, apologists for the actions of the Indian government and anti-colonialists made similar claims about brutalities and repressive actions committed by the Portuguese. If anybody wants evidence for these statements of mine, I would be happy to provide it to him or her. I would also be happy to provide published accounts of atrocities committed by Portuguese soldiers as well as by native African freedom fighters in the anti-colonial wars in Angola and Mozambique. My interest in this issue is purely academic and historical. But I also think it is necessary from time to time to explore the biases of contributors to this forum by contrasting their views against reliable published material. COMMENT: 1: Santoshbab is right. The biased amongst us will claim that their side was/is Sadhu Santh while the other side was/is Shaitan. The basic point is that EVERY individual has a right to self-determination. This ipso facto means that Colonialism is wrong; So is a militarily imposed solution. That is why, East Timor had a referendum. Pity that so much blood had to be spilt because of Indonesia's military aggression. We do not need to scratch our heads too hard to look for examples of the on going struggle between those who want to impose military solutions on people who are resisting those solutions. No need to look for hearsay and anecdotal evidence, this is the Information Age when propaganda can be checked, in near real time. Eventually, the truth outs. 2: One way to reconcile all the diverse views is to acknowledge that, propaganda having been noted, (A) chaps with uniforms and banduks are known to commit atrocities against the weakest among us. The island of GOA, which was the site of numerous invasions courtesy the various neighbouring kingdoms before the arrival of the Portuguese, should provide ample genetic evidence of 'genetic input of no choice' (B) even in 2013, women in India are hesitant to report a rape because of how Indian society views rape victims. (C) different territories have different experiences with their colonial violence. As an example, the experiences of Jamaica and the neighbouring Cayman Islands are vastly different. So, while the Africa-anecdotal reporting is persuasive, it is Obiter. 3: Those among us who wish to be ostrichesque wrt Rapes, possibly have not worked with the abused. There is nothing like witnessing the anguish and despair on the faces of the victims. Indian women have almost become desensitised to the CTs (cheap thrills ) of the depraved Indian men who continue to molest women on trains. Seriously sit down and talk to Indian women and ask them WHY they would try protect their breasts from being man-handled (no pun) while traveling to work or college. They are known to hold books in front and 'say' " well, Let me accept the lesser of the evils i.e. If my butt gets pinched in the bargain, so be it". Ever wonderd by the Female Only compartments were imtroduced in India? 4: And we have the nerve to ASK for proof 50 years post de alleged facto? Are we not ashamed of ourselves? 5: Once again, please review this article written by an Indian woman: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-20907755 6: It is quite OK to point our Index Finger at others who are wrong. I hope we will look at the other 4 which are pointing towards us. 7: It is always right and proper to severely criticise and castigate those who subjugate others by way of Colonialism. In the same breath, I hope we will acknowledge that our defence and justification of the NON PROVISION of self-determination is both Wrong and Hypocritical. 8: It matters little IF anyone amongst us thinks/believes/ considers himself Bharatiya, Purtuguez or even Konkni....etc. The operative Question is: What did the majority of people want? and Should we not have asked them ? jc
