[7:03pm] Jason_Google: Hi Everyone. Time for another App Engine Chat Time! I'll be in the channel for the next hour to attempt to answer questions if anyone has any. [7:03pm] _thom_: Cool. [7:07pm] _thom_: Jason, how often do these chats usually take place? [7:07pm] Jason_Google: We hold these twice a month on the first and third Wednesdays. [7:07pm] • _thom_ adds to calendar, thanks [7:08pm] Jason_Google: They're at different times to accommodate different parts of the world. Here's a link to the schedule: https://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine/browse_thread/thread/3dce0eba81be2626# [7:08pm] Jason_Google: Anyone have any cool new App Engine apps to share? [7:09pm] warreninaustintx: after the 2nd AE language is released, will there be separate SDKs? [7:09pm] _thom_: Heh. Does moderator.appspot.com count [7:09pm] johnleblanc: what can you share with us about this? http://moderator.appspot.com [7:09pm] _thom_: jinx [7:10pm] Jason_Google: warreninaustintx: Yes [7:11pm] oizo: Hi. My first question (sorry for bad english, i'm from russia). How do i know size a entity in bigtable for calculate needed spaces. For example - i have model with one string property, and put into it 1000 chars. What size will have in bigtable? Tnx [7:12pm] pranny: hi folks: people from Google: welcome [7:12pm] Jason_Google: oizo: One second, let me look this up for you. [7:12pm] Jason_Google: pranny: Hi [7:13pm] pranny: I am interested in the search API. I came to know about it yesterday noght only, and today will give it a shot. Can we expect better searches in coming versions ? [7:13pm] _mattd: Jason_Google: will scheduled tasks be coming sooner or later? [7:14pm] dan_google_: oizo: There's a description of the space usage for an entity on the Quotas page in the docs: http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/quotas.html [7:14pm] dan_google_: Each entity stored in the datastore requires the the following metadata: [7:14pm] dan_google_: The entity key, including the kind, the ID or key name, and the key of the entity's parent entity. [7:14pm] dan_google_: The name and value of each property. Since the datastore is schemaless, the name of each property must be stored with the property value for any given entity. [7:14pm] dan_google_: Any built-in and custom index rows that refer to this entity. Each row contains the entity kind, any number of property values depending on the index definition, and the entity key. See How Index Building Works for more details. [7:15pm] dan_google_: _mattd: uh, sooner? [7:15pm] Jason_Google: oizo: I will have to follow up re: calculating the storage space for a single entity. In general, you can calculate how much storage your application is using in the Admin Console, and the size is obviously proportionate to the number of bytes. [7:15pm] Jason_Google: Ah, welcome Dan. [7:15pm] • dan_google_ waves to Jason. [7:15pm] _mattd: dan_google_: cool! [7:15pm] _mattd: dan_google_: any details on what "background processing" holds for us? [7:16pm] dan_google_: _mattd: It holds the ability to do processing in the background! [7:16pm] _mattd: ha [7:16pm] dan_google_: _mattd: Not really. [7:16pm] _mattd: ok [7:16pm] dan_google_: _mattd: However, this is a good point to plug our presentations coming up at Google I/O, including one all about plans for background processing. [7:17pm] Jason_Google: You can find a full list of sessions at http://code.google.com/events/io/sessions.html. [7:17pm] pranny: hey Googlers: this is not something related to Appengine, but I was really expecting some false hoax this Apr 1 by Google. Could not find any. Just one on the Australia site. I loved Virgle last year [7:17pm] _mattd: dan_google_: our band's on tour at the time, so i have to wait until the news and videos come out [7:17pm] dan_google_: Description of the talk to be presented by Brett Slatkin: "App Engine was designed to run request-driven web applications, although this will change in the coming year with the release of a number of offline computing components. In this session, we'll explore the task queue/executor model of computation and some of the more interesting applications." [7:18pm] _mattd: sounds great [7:18pm] johnleblanc: Can we expect Django 1.0 support soon? [7:18pm] dan_google_: pranny: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2009/04/brand-new-language-on-google-app-engine.html [7:18pm] _thom_: or 1.1 for that matter [7:18pm] Jason_Google: pranny: There were quite a few pranks. I followed them all at http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/04/01/april-fools-youtube-flails-amazon-cloud-computing-in-a-blimp-3d-chrome-browsing-google-master-ai/. [7:18pm] johnleblanc: good one [7:19pm] pranny: Jason_Google: oh, I did not read these blogs. They look great. Fortran 7 [7:19pm] Jason_Google: johnleblanc: There are a series of articles re: Django at http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/. Or are you looking for deeper integration? [7:20pm] johnleblanc: just craving the goodies from 1.0 such as django admin, formsets, etc [7:20pm] Jason_Google: I'm actually fairly new to Python, so I haven't had the opportunity to try it myself. [7:20pm] _thom_: 0.9.6 != 1.0.2 of Django, feature-wise [7:20pm] johnleblanc: this has been my savior: http://groups.google.com/group/app-engine-patch [7:20pm] johnleblanc: oops, meant http://code.google.com/p/app-engine-patch/ [7:21pm] _thom_: ...but that adds a whole lot of complexity when trying to grok how things work. [7:22pm] pranny: any update on search module? [7:22pm] dan_google_: Search past chats for my rantings on how to best support newer versions of Django. In short, Django 1.x + zipimport + either the Helper or app-engine-patch is the recommended way to do it. [7:22pm] _mattd: any sort of full-text search on the way? [7:22pm] johnleblanc: indeed, Waldemar has been amazing in the AEP group [7:22pm] Jason_Google: pranny: We eventually want to offer support for full-text search but it's a ways off. [7:24pm] johnleblanc: dan_google_: past chats archived where? [7:24pm] Jason_Google: We post transcripts in the Google Group. You should be able to find them there. [7:25pm] Jason_Google: https://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine/search?group=google-appengine&q=transcript [7:25pm] oizo: Second question: When i use simple transaction (for example only class Balance with ref User) i may make parent key for Balance objects from this class (Key.from_path('Balance', 'group')) or create second class Group and use parent key from it (from_path ('Group', 'group')). What better use? [7:26pm] dan_google_: oizo: It doesn't make much of a difference, as long as all of the entities you want to modify in a transaction end up in the same group. [7:26pm] dan_google_: oizo: It sounds like you can just make the User entity the parent of the user's Balance entity. [7:28pm] oizo: Why not fake Balance entity? [7:29pm] dan_google_: oizo: It doesn't make a different with regards to the transaction. You can do whatever is easiest for your app. [7:30pm] dan_google_: oizo: I forget whether the parent entity has to exist to create the child with a path. (I know you can delete the parent later and continue to refer to the child with a complete path.) [7:30pm] oizo: ok, thank you very much [7:31pm] Jason_Google: According to the docs, "You can create an entity with an ancestor path without first creating the parent entity." [7:35pm] oizo: it's really add another pay system for billing (as poplular russian WebMoney)? [7:35pm] dan_google_: oizo: Is that a question? [7:35pm] Jason_Google: Currently, Google Checkout is the only system that's supported, and there aren't any current plans to add others. But you can always file a feature request. [7:36pm] dan_google_: oizo: Note that if you're implementing balance transfers within the app, you'll need to do something more complicated than put all user accounts in a single entity group. Doing so would drastically slow down your throughput, since only one transaction can update the group at a time. [7:38pm] johnleblanc: any examples of GAE + checkout you can point us to? [7:39pm] Jason_Google: Oh, I was referring to our billing setup. When you enable billing for your application, you have to create a recurring charge authorization with Google Checkout. [7:40pm] dan_google_: We need a good article on GAE + checkout. It's been on my to-do list for a long time. [7:40pm] johnleblanc: thank you [7:40pm] warreninaustintx: i don't suppose the billing app is open source, huh? [7:41pm] Jason_Google: warreninaustintx: No [7:41pm] dan_google_: warreninaustintx: Nope, sorry, the admin console isn't open source. [7:41pm] dan_google_: warreninaustintx: It uses features not available to other apps. Like the ability to create apps. [7:42pm] johnleblanc: I'd also be curious to see a google calendar + GAE integration. Perhaps a booking engine type of thing? [7:44pm] Jason_Google: We're actually working on an example app with Calendar. I don't know when it will be finished, but it's pretty far along. We hope to publish that with an article. [7:44pm] johnleblanc: nice! [7:44pm] Jason_Google: There's already an article on using Google Data services with GAE, but not Calendar-specific. [7:45pm] pranny: Jason_Google: I was looking over the reviews on search module, and I found http://zhuocorporation.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!D76A58A7350B0D0B!1824.entry interesting. It shows some 'bugs' in the module. [7:46pm] oizo: Is any way to get name of all my models and indices in bigtable (in SDK is datastore_admin.GetSchema() etc), on prod don't work (exception) but in your admin you such as getting [7:47pm] Jason_Google: pranny: I agree, it's not terribly robust. Better support will hopefully be coming, but it's not on the current roadmap. [7:48pm] Jason_Google: oizo: Programatically, I'm not sure. The Admin Console shows the indices and models for your application, though. [7:51pm] moraes: oizo: try the code you find in datastore_admin.GetSchema(), rather than trying to import it [7:56pm] oizo: moraes: exeption was in low-level (in PB as i remember) [7:56pm] oizo: *exception [7:58pm] Leemp: oo, is there a google talk going on now? Or did i miss it [7:59pm] Leemp: I've been struggling with the sdk trying to solve an issue haha, i totally forgot about the Q&A [7:59pm] Leemp: oh n/m, 9-10am pst [7:59pm] Jason_Google: Hi Leemp. It's just about over. What's your issue? [7:59pm] Leemp: Oh awesome, one sec, typing [8:00pm] Leemp: Jason_Google: Ok, i use WingIDE and would like to have WingIDE catch any exceptions raised in my app. However, it seems the SDK has a try-except floating around somewhere that is catching it and printing it to the client (web browser) [8:01pm] Leemp: Jason_Google: Wingware (makers of WingIDE) suggest finding this, and placing a little bit of code in there to raise the exception again for WingIDEs sake. Any thoughts on where this magic try-except is, and if that is indeed my best course of action? [8:02pm] mjwiacek: Leemp, is the exception you see in your browser purple-ish? [8:02pm] Leemp: mjwiacek: Plain white, though i would also like to catch the purple one aswell [8:02pm] Jason_Google: Ah, I see. I'll have to follow up on this since I'm not completely sure. [8:02pm] Leemp: WingIDE has a nice debugger, and my browser _does not_. I hate having a great debugger, that i can't use. :? [8:02pm] Leemp: :/* [8:03pm] moraes: hmm, you use webapp? [8:03pm] Leemp: moraes: yes, for the handlers [8:03pm] moraes: i think you should investigate WSGIApplication, and probably make your own [8:05pm] dan_google_: I'm out. Thanks, all! [8:06pm] oizo: Thanks you too! [8:06pm] Jason_Google: Good night (or perhaps morning/afternoon) to everyone. This ends today's Chat Time. The next will be two Wednesdays from today, April 15, 9-10 a.m. PDT. [8:06pm] Jason_Google: Bye! --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
