Hi Nikita,

On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 3:02 PM, Nikita Srivastava <[email protected]>wrote:

> Thanks for the suggestions. I had one more question - Although we're using
> sparse entity distribution, each of our entry is indexed on two primary
> properties, so we don't build any composite indexes. But the entities are
> retrieved through the basic index at a really fast rate, no writes, only
> reads, but they are really fast. Should I be worried about contention
> issues? Some entities might face 1000+ reads/sec retrieved though a query
> done on a property. But we retrieve only upto 30-50 entities per query.


No, this won't be a problem. Bigtable tabletservers cache frequently read
data in memory, and split tablets across more servers if they're more
popular - so it would take a truly astounding read rate on a single row to
even begin to cause an issue, at which point you should be using Memcache
anyway!

-Nick Johnson


> Thanks again!
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 1:32 AM, Ikai L (Google) <[email protected]>wrote:
>
>> Measure your QPS, use AppStats, and be sure your requests that are user
>> facing finish quickly. If the majority of your requests finish in under
>> 800ms and return to the user, we'll spin up new instances for you. 400ms is
>> best, however. That's 800ms of perceived time for the user - not total time
>> (datastore calls are parallelized, so you could consume 2000ms of CPU time,
>> but if your request returns to the user in 300ms you are okay). Do any work
>> that will take longer in Task Queues or Cron when possible.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 11:11 AM, Nikita Srivastava <[email protected]
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Makes sense. Also, another user here pointed me to the 1.3.6 specs which
>>> says that custom error pages would be soon available. So the Quota Error be
>>> less of an issue, because we do get errors and we do show them, but the main
>>> issue was fear of sudden 'app engine' error when no user knows what app
>>> engine is. I hope 1.3.6 resolves this.
>>>
>>> As for the reason you mentioned, I think what we should do is set daily
>>> budget twice of what we paid for CPU previously, which was not cheaper I
>>> think ($0.08 per 1.2Ghz CPU hour). So I am planning to set this to
>>> $2000-2500 range as daily limit to avoid the Quota errors to legit users.
>>> Any other things that you can suggest that I should do?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 8:13 PM, Nick Johnson (Google) <
>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Nikita,
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 7:01 AM, Nikita <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> We're trying to deploy a large project on app engine, and by this
>>>>> time, we have an app engine version in internal testing. However, we
>>>>> have a few concerns:
>>>>>
>>>>> First, the information this gentleman expresses:
>>>>> http://aralbalkan.com/1504
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is a quote - "You build an awesome new app on Google App Engine.
>>>>> You tell your friends. They tell 1,000 of their friends on Twitter who
>>>>> tell 1,000 of their friends and then, suddenly, you have all these
>>>>> developers hitting Google App Engine for the first time to see your
>>>>> app. Paradoxically, by doing that, they trigger the "intelligent
>>>>> throttling" "feature" in Google App Engine which freaks out and shuts
>>>>> down your app with an "Over Quota" error -- effectively making the
>>>>> "Over Quota" message the first impression most of your audience has of
>>>>> Google App Engine."
>>>>>
>>>>> To what extent is this true? As paying customers with a sizable budget
>>>>> (We're paying over $35,000 a month on our current host, bandwidth
>>>>> exclusive), this is completely unacceptable.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There's no "intelligent throttling". Every app has quotas, determined by
>>>> the amount of budget you allocate to each resource (or a fixed amount, in
>>>> the case of free apps), and the quotas are accounted for both on a daily
>>>> basis and in smaller bins. In other words, your traffic can vary, but we
>>>> won't let your app consume its entire budget before we start serving over
>>>> quota errors. I hope you can see why this is: we assume you don't want a
>>>> single spike of traffic, for example because your app is being abused, to 
>>>> be
>>>> able to consume your entire quota for the day, leaving your app serving 
>>>> 'out
>>>> of quota' errors for the rest of the day!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I assumed that this might be true only for free accounts, but then one
>>>>> of our engineers found this ->
>>>>>
>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine/browse_thread/thread/32876e345d075878/e2ec2e4fdd7ca3e0
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a paying customer begging for your mercy to scale. He claims
>>>>> he gets a Out of Quota error in 1 of 6 requests. This shows he isn't
>>>>> really out o his daily Quota, but there is something else that's going
>>>>> wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As you can see from the thread, the user was only experiencing issues
>>>> because some of their requests were taking too long to complete. We impose
>>>> limits on how many instances of an app we will schedule if the app takes 
>>>> too
>>>> long to respond, because slow apps don't scale very well and would take
>>>> disproportionate amounts of resources.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Nick Johnson
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> It would be great i somebody from Google can comment on the validity o
>>>>> the above concerns. We don't want to shift our entire business to app
>>>>> engine and have our customers watch the "Out of Quota - App engine
>>>>> errors". Frankly, this would be like BSOD of the web 2.0 world. :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]
>>>>> .
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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>>>>> For more options, visit this group at
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nick Johnson, Developer Programs Engineer, App Engine Google Ireland
>>>> Ltd. :: Registered in Dublin, Ireland, Registration Number: 368047
>>>> Google Ireland Ltd. :: Registered in Dublin, Ireland, Registration
>>>> Number: 368047
>>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ikai Lan
>> Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
>> Blog: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine
>> Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine
>>
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>
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-- 
Nick Johnson, Developer Programs Engineer, App Engine Google Ireland Ltd. ::
Registered in Dublin, Ireland, Registration Number: 368047
Google Ireland Ltd. :: Registered in Dublin, Ireland, Registration Number:
368047

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