HI Galoch,

Thanks for the followup,

I think you are experiencing a combinaison fo the two following rules
I was pointing to in my previous email:
(> reads as has priority for handling the incoming request)
2/ Spawning a new Dynamic instance > Busy Always On instance
4/ Idle Dynamic instance > Idle Always On instance

Applied to your example it could means that:
Resident Instance 1:   Requests: 49     Age: 1Hr
Resident Instance 2:   Requests: 6      Age: 1Hr
Resident Instance 3:   Requests: 2      Age: 1Hr
Dynamic Instance 1:   Requests: 7      Age: 2min
Dynamic Instance 2:   Requests: 291  Age: 1Hr
Dynamic Instance 3:   Requests: 322  Age: 1Hr

- 1 Hours ago while all your Always On instance were busy and you had
a burst of incoming requests and the scheduler spawned new Dynamic
instances as per rule 2/ highlighted above.
- After the burst and back to normal traffic the new Dynamic Instances
were handing incoming requests in priority as per rule 4/ highlighted
above.
- 2 Minutes ago all your instances Always On + Dynamic were busy again
and the scheduler spawned a new Dynamic instance that handle 7
incoming requests.

Hope that make more sense for you and Francois, but as I said earlier
we are open to suggestion and I will make sure someone working on the
scheduler team monitor this thread for your input.

On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 9:09 AM, Galoch <[email protected]> wrote:
> @Johan,
> The issue is not about Always On instance being busy. Its actually the
> other way ... the Always On instance is never busy ... at least that
> is what we observed in last 3-4 days. Your explanation may be partly
> true since this behavior keeps on changing.
>
> For e.g. I have a snapshot of instances from July 19th and here's the
> details (for some reason I can't see a link to attach the snapshot
> images here):
> Resident Instance 1:   Requests: 49     Age: 1Hr
> Resident Instance 2:   Requests: 6      Age: 1Hr
> Resident Instance 3:   Requests: 2      Age: 1Hr
> Dynamic Instance 1:   Requests: 7      Age: 2min
> Dynamic Instance 2:   Requests: 291  Age: 1Hr
> Dynamic Instance 3:   Requests: 322  Age: 1Hr
>
> This is under "no load" with only very light weight cron jobs running.
> This gets much much worse during the day under peak load with requests
> for dynamic instances reaching 1000+ in matter of minutes and resident
> instances have only "1" request served.
>
> As you see above Resident Instance 2 and 3 are hardly hit so I don't
> think they are busy at all. On the other hand, Dynamic Instance 2 and
> 3 get most of the hits.
>
> Dynamic Instance 1 is what is killing us. It keeps getting killed and
> reborn within that 5 minute window!!
>
> We use Spring framework and it is really very expensive for us when a
> new instance starts up.
>
> Just to give you a background, we had gone through a real roller
> coaster ride to make this to work on GAE by breaking the loading of
> framework into many different chunks. But still spinning was out of
> control. Then we found java threads to our rescue. We worked through
> the hack to load JDO to avoid UnsupportedOperationException. We
> finally got it to work where most of our requests were served by
> Always On instances with occasional spinning of Dynamic instances. It
> was quite impressive.
>
> Unfortunately, this was short lived when we hit this new behavior with
> GAE. The very last thing we want GAE to do is create a new instance
> every few minutes as it could easily reach 30 second deadline during
> the day and throw critical error.
>
> I am not sure when the new billing will come into effect but we really
> need this thing fixed as it literally brings down our app to a
> grinding halt. So I am open to any suggestions you guys think can help
> us.
>
> Another thought about new scheduler is to have a configurable
> schedule. For e.g. our users are mostly business users who work during
> normal business hours. We want to be able to spin more Always On
> instances during those hours and bring the number down during nights
> and weekends. Dynamic instances won't work for us due to reason
> explained above.
>
>
> Thanks,
> galoch
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 21, 5:56 pm, Johan Euphrosine <[email protected]> wrote:
>> After speaking with Engs, I think I can explain what is going on:
>>
>> Here are the current scheduling rules: (> reads as has priority for
>> handling the incoming request)
>>
>> 1/ Idle Always On instance > Spawning a new Dynamic instance
>> 2/ Spawning a new Dynamic instance > Busy Always On instance
>> 3/ Idle Dynamic instance > Busy Always On instance
>> 4/ Idle Dynamic instance > Idle Always On instance
>>
>> I will give you an example to illustrate the behavior you all noticed,
>> that is Dynamic instance handling request while Always On is idle.
>>
>> (Always On instance started)
>> - Incoming request
>> - Always On instance handle the request
>> - another Incoming request
>> (Always On instance busy)
>> - A new Dynamic instance is spawned
>> (Dynamic instance idle, Always on instance busy)
>> - Dynamic instance handle the request
>> - another Incoming request
>> (Dynamic instance idle, Always on instance idle)
>> - Dynamic instance handle the request
>> - No request for more than idle-dynamic-instance-timeout
>> - Dynamic instance shut down
>> - another Incoming request
>> (Always On instance idle)
>> - Always On instance handle the request
>>
>> Hope it makes thing clearer.
>>
>> As part of the new billing model you will have a scheduler knob called
>> 'max-idle-instances' that you can use if extra idling dynamic
>> instances are undesired.
>>
>> The good news is that we are open to suggestion, if you think this
>> behavior is the wrong default, feel free to comment on that thread and
>> I will follow up your suggestion to the Engineering team.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 12:18 AM, Galoch <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > Same here. Seems like GAE is totally ignoring Always On instances.
>> > I also noticed that even with no user hitting our app and a single
>> > cron job that runs every 5 minutes it is still spinning instances
>> > every 3 minutes and then killing them in 2 minutes.
>>
>> > This has been happening since after the upgrade on 14th July. During
>> > peak load this really gets nasty and brings down the performance.
>>
>> > This is the feedback I got yesterday from one of our customers since
>> > it takes time to spin an instance (and yes we use Spring):
>>
>> > "1) I found the GUI to be very laggy"
>>
>> > Can someone from Google please respond?
>>
>> > --
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>>
>> --
>> Johan Euphrosine (proppy)
>> Developer Programs Engineer
>> Google Developer Relations
>
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>



-- 
Johan Euphrosine (proppy)
Developer Programs Engineer
Google Developer Relations

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