I have to agree with this; it seems completely backwards to me. Wouldn't 
resident instance warmups be extremely infrequent since they are.... well, 
resident! Under load, I wouldI want user facing requests to hit the resident 
instance UNTIL a new dynamic instance has been spun up AND hit with a warmup 
request. 



On Friday, July 13, 2012 11:41:46 PM UTC-4, Tom Phillips wrote:
> Hi Takashi,
> 
> Now that I've added a resident idle instance, the logs seem to confirm
> that only the loading of the resident instance is via /_ah/warmup.
> It's difficult to tell that for sure, but all my current dynamic
> instances were loaded on a user URL, and  the current resident
> instance was loaded via /_ah/warmup.
> 
> Resident idle instances are loaded only infrequently, and serve little
> traffic, so of what use are warmup requests if only they get them? The
> vast majority of loading requests are now on user URLs. That's a 20+
> second wait (Java) by a user on almost every loading request.
> 
> Back in the Always-on days, I would see virtually all loading requests
> use /_ah/warmup, as long as traffic was relatively stable. So an
> instance loading rarely affected an actual user. What do we configure
> now to get this same behavior?
> 
> /Tom
> 
> On Jul 13, 7:07 pm, Takashi Matsuo <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Hi Mauricio,
> >
> > Yes I understand that, and we've been working on it. Sorry that 
> it's taking
> > long.
> >
> > Hi Wilson,
> >
> > It's coming with the pricing change. Since we started charging with 
> number
> > of instances, we needed to provide more control on how we spin-up a new
> > instances.
> > In other words, if we continued the old behavior, many developers would
> > have complained like "App Engine spins up unnecessary 
> instances.".
> >
> > We believe that it makes more sense when warmup requests are used only 
> for
> > resident idle instances.
> >
> > -- Takashi
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 7:18 AM, Wilson MacGyver 
> <[email protected]>wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > any reason behind this change? this seems kind of strange. I too was
> > > wondering by the
> > > behavior till you posted this. I had my min set to automatic also
> >
> > > On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 9:28 AM, Takashi Matsuo 
> <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > > Now the warmup requests are fired only if you set min idle 
> instances to
> > > some
> > > > value(not automatic).
> >
> > > > -- Takashi
> >
> > > > On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 9:52 PM, Michael Hermus <
> > > [email protected]>
> > > > wrote:
> >
> > > >> Same for me.. I just checked: no calls to warmup, lots of 
> loading
> > > >> requests.
> >
> > > >> **shakes fist at App Engine**
> >
> > > >> On Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:39:48 PM UTC-4, Tom Phillips 
> wrote:
> >
> > > >>> Interesting..I checked and I too have 100% of my 
> loading requests on
> > > >>> user facing URLs instead of /_ah/warmup.
> >
> > > >>> Warmup requests are enabled and Automatic-Automatic 
> for both instance
> > > >>> sliders.
> >
> > > >>> I used to see at least a decent percentage of loading 
> requests on /_ah/
> > > >>> warmup, but haven't looked in quite a while.
> >
> > > >>> /Tom
> >
> > > >>> On Jul 12, 3:46 pm, David Hardwick 
> <[email protected]>
> > > >>> wrote:
> > > >>> > Some additional observations and questions...
> >
> > > >>> > After reading this [Link 1] stack overflow 
> article that mentioned an
> > > >>> > issue with having your Max Idle count below 6, we 
> started looking at
> > > >>> > our warmup request on our staging environment 
> because that app-id has
> > > >>> > Idle Instances set to Auto-Auto, while production 
> had specific
> > > values.
> >
> > > >>> > But...Where did all the "/_ah/warmup" 
> requests go?  When doing a
> > > label
> > > >>> > search for these staging environment logs 
> ["path:/_ah/warmup" (doing
> > > a
> > > >>> > label search)] we couldn't find any warmup 
> request!!(yes, we have
> > > >>> > warmup requests turned on)...we would just see 
> the first cold-start
> > > >>> > request would take around 15 seconds to load (F1) 
> and 10 seconds to
> > > >>> > load on (F2).
> >
> > > >>> > I even shut down every instance and hit the 
> staging server again to
> > > >>> > see if I could find a warmup request in the 
> logs...nope.  Honestly, I
> > > >>> > would rather have a user wait 10 seconds for the 
> first request to
> > > that
> > > >>> > server as opposed risking the warmup requests 
> failing again.
> >
> > > >>> > Where did all the "/_ah/warmup" 
> requests go?   More importantly, why
> > > >>> > would we have such different times for warmup 
> requests compared to
> > > >>> > cold starts?  Shouldn't they be nearly 
> identical?!
> >
> > > >>> > Rock on,
> > > >>> >   -Hardwick
> >
> > > >>> > [Link 1]
> > > >>> > -
> > 
> >http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9422698/ah-warmup-producing-hardde...
> >
> > > >>> > On Jul 12, 12:26 pm, David Hardwick 
> <[email protected]>
> > > >>> > wrote:
> >
> > > >>> > > Hello,
> >
> > > >>> > > I realize there's been a lot of 
> discussion on startup times
> > > exceeded
> > > >>> > > on
> > > >>> > > this forum recently, but wanted needed to 
> post this experience we
> > > had
> > > >>> > > this
> > > >>> > > morning to keep the attention on this 
> important issue.
> >
> > > >>> > > We uploaded a point release of our app to a 
> "not-live" version this
> > > >>> > > morning
> > > >>> > > and, of course, we were going to click 
> around on that instance to
> > > >>> > > make sure
> > > >>> > > it's all kosher before making that 
> version "live."   The warm-up
> > > >>> > > requests
> > > >>> > > for the "not-live" version were 
> exceeding the deadline limit of
> > > >>> > > 60s...
> > > >>> > > __and__we__are__on__F4s__!_!.
> >
> > > >>> > > However, the LIVE version of the app crashed 
> too, 500 server
> > > errors,
> > > >>> > > instance counts went to zero, all sorts of 
> whacky stuff was seen in
> > > >>> > > the
> > > >>> > > control panel.  All that happened to our 
> LIVE version without when
> > > >>> > > all we
> > > >>> > > did was upload another "non-live" 
> version and hit it with a single
> > > >>> > > request...did I mention we were on F4s?  ;-) 
>  Does the failure of
> > > any
> > > >>> > > instance to exceed the 60s limit take down 
> all instances to include
> > > >>> > > live
> > > >>> > > one?
> >
> > > >>> > > We did a few things as quickly as possible 
> since our live
> > > application
> > > >>> > > was
> > > >>> > > down, so clearly we didn't have the time 
> to take the scientific
> > > >>> > > approach of
> > > >>> > > only changing one thing at a time and wait 
> to see if it that did
> > > it.
> >
> > > >>> > > We...
> > > >>> > > 1. Switched from F4s to F2 (i figured if 
> this would least get us on
> > > >>> > > some
> > > >>> > > new servers/instances)
> > > >>> > > 2. Increased max idle instances from 1 to 2 
> (with F4s running, I'm
> > > >>> > > fine
> > > >>> > > with having just 1 idle instance and not at 
> all happy about paying
> > > >>> > > for 2
> > > >>> > > idle instances, so maybe we'll just 
> increase this prior to
> > > >>> > > deployments and
> > > >>> > > then back down again after the deployment 
> succeeds until we know
> > > >>> > > more)
> > > >>> > > 3. Made the recently uploaded version live 
> (hey, why not, the
> > > >>> > > production
> > > >>> > > app was down for 10 minutes, so how much 
> more harm could we do?)
> >
> > > >>> > > We use GWT and Guice, we jar everything (as 
> I have been paying
> > > >>> > > attention to
> > > >>> > > this startup time discussions for quite some 
> time now.  We are also
> > > >>> > > considering switching our Guice libraries to 
> a non-AOP version as
> > > we
> > > >>> > > saw
> > > >>> > > suggested in another blog since we just need 
> the injection.
> >
> > > >>> > > Any insight, and I'm all ears!  
> app_id=s~myflashpanel
> >
> > > >>> > > Regards,
> > > >>> > >   -Hardwick
> >
> > > >>> > > --
> >
> > > >>> > >  *We make Google Apps even better.*
> >
> > > >>> > > *David Hardwick*
> > > >>> > > *CTO*
> > > >>> > > [email protected]
> >
> > > >>> > > *Signature by Flashpanel 
> <http://flashpanel.com/>*
> > > >>> > >  *See us in Mashable: Growing Up Google: How 
> Cloud Computing Is
> > > >>> > > Changing a
> > > >>> > > Generation
> > > >>> > > 
> <http://mashable.com/2012/04/30/generation-growing-up-google/>*
> >
> > > >> --
> > > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to 
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> > > Groups
> > > >> "Google App Engine" group.
> > > >> To view this discussion on the web visit
> > > 
> >>https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/Bs6JKwLYDAMJ.
> >
> > > >> To post to this group, send email to 
> [email protected].
> > > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > >> [email protected].
> > > >> For more options, visit this group at
> > > >>http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
> >
> > > > --
> > > > Takashi Matsuo
> >
> > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the 
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> > > > "Google App Engine" group.
> > > > To post to this group, send email to 
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> > > > For more options, visit this group at
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> >
> > > --
> > > Omnem crede diem tibi diluxisse supremum.
> >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
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> > > "Google App Engine" group.
> > > To post to this group, send email to 
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> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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> > > For more options, visit this group at
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> >
> > --
> > Takashi Matsuo

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