Hi Jeff, I would describe mine as success too.
Although, the only point of using appengine was the ease of development and that it would scale as we grew. 1) Ease of development is out of question with a big code base. 2) scale comes at the highest cost. Thanks Rafa On Feb 28, 2014 2:23 AM, "Jeff Schnitzer" <[email protected]> wrote: > This is pretty much our experience of modules too - especially the > maven integration feels half-baked. But we have a couple batch > operations that run at midnight that require extra memory, and it > sucks to have to pay for that all day. > > I think I've been one of the loudest people complaining about the > java/cold start/user facing issue, and yes, it's still a concern. > Every so often a request appears to hang, and that's not really > acceptable, especially for our low-traffic/high-value-per-request app. > But I will also say that it doesn't seem like it has been as much of a > problem as it has been in the past - maybe something got smarter? I > don't notice the hung requests much anymore, and it's been forever > since we've experienced the "startup latency > 60s thus instances > can't get off the ground" problem. > > I would describe our java app as a success story, even if the history > has not been perfect. Neither Heroku nor CloudFoundry has been perfect > either. > > Jeff > > On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 1:00 AM, Rafael <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi De Witte, > > > > That would happen if you are successful. Imagine building a complex app > > using app engine. > > It's pretty difficult to stay away from modules. > > > > For example: > > imagine a social network scenario, where you have long running tasks > > competing with frontend requests. > > then put britney spears sending a message and blasting thousands of tasks > > for push notifications. > > > > Modules have two good things: > > 1) different scaling and memory configuration. > > 2) separate the code into chunks of smaller packages. (you don't need > spring > > for everything) > > > > Although, modules have big drawbacks: > > 1) impossible to develop without throwing the mouse on the wall > sometimes. > > 2) hate maven integration. (half baked) > > 3) hate the appengine IDE integration (half baked) > > 4) hate the dispatch.xml (half baked) > > > > thanks > > rafa > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 9:02 AM, de Witte <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> We don't use modules, why should you? Do you have a requirement which > >> cannot be done without them? > >> > >> > >> Op donderdag 27 februari 2014 02:58:56 UTC+1 schreef Rafael Sanches: > >>> > >>> De Witte, > >>> > >>> Do you have a multi module project? > >>> > >>> How do you handle that without module? The eclipse plugin doesn't work > >>> with that setup. > >>> > >>> thanks > >>> rafa > >>> > >>> > >>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 3:45 PM, de Witte <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> We have been working with Java and GAE for several years now and so > far > >>>> no problems. > >>>> > >>>> AngularJs + ExtJS 4.0 is a good combo for the front end. Although I > >>>> prefer GWT. > >>>> > >>>> Spring+Maven is a headache even without GAE. We have been avoiding it > >>>> and doing fine. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Op maandag 24 februari 2014 03:11:22 UTC+1 schreef Rafael Sanches: > >>>>> > >>>>> Not being updated doesn't mean it doesn't work properly. > >>>>> > >>>>> GAE + java is definitely frustrating, but some of your statements > are a > >>>>> bit too broad ;) > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Tapir <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Sunday, February 23, 2014 1:47:28 PM UTC+8, Rafael Sanches wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Can you try and let us all know? it may be the solution you're > >>>>>>> looking for. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The Google App Engine module for Play has not been updated for 2 > >>>>>> years! :( > >>>>>> > >>>>>> For another one, Objectify , > >>>>>> https://code.google.com/p/play-framework-objectify/, the showcase > on this > >>>>>> page need >15 seconds to load. :( > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The decision is made, I will never use java for web development any > >>>>>> more, for many reasons, such as not support hot deploy, large memory > >>>>>> consumption, too many configurations, too many hidden elements, and > too slow > >>>>>> startup on GAE. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 8:29 PM, Tapir <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Friday, February 21, 2014 5:39:17 AM UTC+8, Rafael Sanches > wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Have you tried playframework? They have optimizations to make > your > >>>>>>>>> life easier when developing. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> My life is living hell right now when developing with maven and > >>>>>>>>> appengine. The play framework solves that by running their own > thing. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Read more: http://www.playframework.com/documentation/1.0/gae > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I don't think they can bypass the core GAE SDK lib. > >>>>>>>> The problem of GAE Java is at the core GAE SDK lib. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 7:24 PM, Tapir <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, February 20, 2014 6:26:52 AM UTC+8, Emanuele > Ziglioli > >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Great stuff > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> hope you don't move to Go too soon! > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Why? > >>>>>>>>>> It is a way of no ways. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, 20 February 2014 03:52:33 UTC+13, Tapir wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 18, 2014 6:43:56 PM UTC+8, Tapir wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 18, 2014 4:56:51 PM UTC+8, Rafael > Sanches > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> very interesting... > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> can you tell me how you did that? in a maven build or only > via > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> eclipse? > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> neither, I did it manually. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ok, the new test result: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. if I remove all jar files from the war/WEB-INF/lib, the > >>>>>>>>>>>>> warmup time is about 2.3 seconds. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. if I put the only the core app engine sdk jar file in > >>>>>>>>>>>>> war/WEB-INF/lib, but doesn't reference it, the warmup time > is about 2.9 > >>>>>>>>>>>>> seconds. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. if I put "DatastoreService datastore = > >>>>>>>>>>>>> DatastoreServiceFactory.getDatastoreService();" in the jsp > file but do > >>>>>>>>>>>>> nothing eslse, the warmup time is 3.5 seconds > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 4. if I put a query in the default jsp file, the warmup time > is > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 4.7 seconds. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 5. if I convert query result as list, the warmup time is 6 > >>>>>>>>>>>>> seconds. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> made some new tests today. The results are some different. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> ======================================= > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> First, the impact of number of lib jar files: > >>>>>>>>>>>> 1. no lib jar files, warm up time = 3 seconds (slower than > >>>>>>>>>>>> yesterday) > >>>>>>>>>>>> 2. one core lib jar file, no refs, warm up time = 5 seconds > >>>>>>>>>>>> (slower than yesterday) > >>>>>>>>>>>> 3. four core lib jar files (the ones under sdk user folder), > no > >>>>>>>>>>>> refs, warm up time = 5.7 seconds > >>>>>>>>>>>> 4. fifty-four jar files (used in my projects) , no refs, warm > up > >>>>>>>>>>>> time = 6.2 seconds > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> So, obviously, the core GAE SDK lib files have a big impact > on > >>>>>>>>>>>> the warm up time. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> ======================================== > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Second, number of references of core sdk lib. > >>>>>>>>>>>> 1. no refs, 3.5 seconds > >>>>>>>>>>>> 2. fewer refs, 4.4 seconds, by adding "DatastoreService > >>>>>>>>>>>> datastore = DatastoreServiceFactory.getDatastoreService(); > Key > >>>>>>>>>>>> guestbookKey = KeyFactory.createKey("Guestbook", > guestbookName);" > >>>>>>>>>>>> 3. more refs, 5.5 seconds, by adding "Query query = new > >>>>>>>>>>>> Query("Greeting", guestbookKey).addSort("date", > >>>>>>>>>>>> Query.SortDirection.DESCENDING); List<Entity> greetings = > >>>>>>>>>>>> > datastore.prepare(query).asList(FetchOptions.Builder.withLimit(5));" > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> So, the first references to core lib class will also increase > >>>>>>>>>>>> the warm up time. In this example, only part of core classes > are refed, if > >>>>>>>>>>>> there are more, the warmup time would be longer. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> ======================================== > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> The performance of GAE instances varies much in the tests. So > >>>>>>>>>>>> the result may be not very accurate, but I think the > conclusions are > >>>>>>>>>>>> reliable. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Final conclusion: using pure jsp/servlet will not save a GAE > >>>>>>>>>>>> java project. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> so, I think it is very clear that the datastore API is main > >>>>>>>>>>>>> cause of long warmup time. A simple datastoe calling will > increase the > >>>>>>>>>>>>> warmup time much. In above example, the total increased > warmup caused by > >>>>>>>>>>>>> datastore APIs is more than 3 seconds. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Otherwaise, scanning the core app engine sdk jar will cost > 0.5 > >>>>>>>>>>>>> second. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> So, @GAE_team, please optimize your datastore APIs. Done! > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Tapir <[email protected]> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok, I removed all core GAE jar files under SDK/lib/user > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now the warmup time dropped from 5-7 seconds to 3-4 > seconds. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What is appengine-api-labs-1.x.x.jar? is it essential? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And must the appengine-api-1.0-sdk-1.x.x.jar be included in > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the project war directory? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 18, 2014 1:59:15 PM UTC+8, Tapir > wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 18, 2014 4:33:16 AM UTC+8, Emanuele > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ziglioli wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not sure where my reply went. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 18, 2014 3:57:37 AM UTC+8, Emanuele > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ziglioli wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Our warmup time was 15 seconds, then I looked at the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hello world project that the GAE plugin generates with > one servlet. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That took 2 seconds to startup (once the servlet was > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hit). > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On F2 instance? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Haven't seen much difference between F1 and F2 when it > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> comes to warmup time. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most time seems to be spent actually loading jars. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Initialization could be as little as 3s with our > project, F2 would a bit > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better but not so much > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why? looks not reasonable. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My experience is the modules feature will spend your > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> money. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I haven't seen many people using modules yet. Can't they > be > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> configured to be F1 like non default versions? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails > from > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google > >>>>>>>>>> Groups "Google App Engine" group. > >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from > it, > >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. > >>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to > [email protected]. > >>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at > >>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine. > >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit > https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>>>>>>> Groups "Google App Engine" group. > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. > >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > . > >>>>>>>> Visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine. > >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>>>>> Groups "Google App Engine" group. > >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send > >>>>>> an email to [email protected]. > >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine > . > >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>>> Groups "Google App Engine" group. > >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > >>>> an email to [email protected]. > >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine. > >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > >>> > >>> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > >> "Google App Engine" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an > >> email to [email protected]. > >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine. > >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Google App Engine" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to [email protected]. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google App Engine" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. 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