George, thank you for that reply. I don't want to clutter the list, so feel free to not respond, but there seems to be a real difference of approaches here. I now understand your approach better, based on responses from you and other Googlers, but to me it is so counter-intuitive that I want to understand where you're coming from.
I seem to be exceptionally concerned about the risk of accidental deletion/overwriting. Doesn't it make sense to handle that as a high priority? Maybe I'll write up up an article if I get my head around this. On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 5:35 PM, George (Cloud Platform Support) < [email protected]> wrote: > Hello Joshua, > > Leaving data in the Blobstore and hoping for the best, as you say, is not > such an unreasonable policy: as mentioned, there is a standards-validated data > protection policy <https://cloud.google.com/security/compliance> in > place, covering backups and all kind of risks to data in the cloud, > including what you mention about hacker interference. > How does the policy cover that? If a hacker deletes our Blobstore or Datastore -- or indeed, if we delete them with bugs in our code or by accidentally hitting the Delete button at https://console.cloud. google.com/appengine/blobstore?project=myproject or https://ah-builtin-python-bundle-dot-myproject.appspot. com/_ah/datastore_admin -- does your data protection policy allow us to recover? [image: Inline image 2][image: Inline image 3] Your view on versioning and team member error seems to be influenced by a > code development environment mindset. GAE is not specifically built for > developing code on-line, you may refer to specialized third-party tools for > that, for instance git <https://git-scm.com/>. > Sure, we use Git for code. These tools take care of versioning, and are able to revert data to a > healthy previous state in case of team-member/human error. > Of course we test new code on our dev laptops, then in special GAE test-projects. We often delete the data in these test projects. We pay *very *close attention to make sure we don't delete the data in the production project -- but we are all human, and mistakes can happen. > There are in fact versioning features offered for the instances running in > the cloud; please refer to the “Versioning and instances” paragraph in the > overview > of the app engine > <https://cloud.google.com/appengine/docs/python/an-overview-of-app-engine>. > > But from what I can see Git and AppEngine Versions do not allow reverting data, just code. One can find a Backing up or restoring data chapter on the Managing > Datastore from the Console > <https://cloud.google.com/appengine/docs/python/console/managing-datastore> > page. > > You are perfectly right about the Blobstore, the backup process does not > include values stored in Blobstore or Cloud Storage > <https://cloud.google.com/appengine/docs/python/console/datastore-backing-up-restoring>. > Applications do not create or modify blob data directly; instead, blobs are > created indirectly, by a submitted web form or other HTTP POST request > <https://cloud.google.com/appengine/docs/java/blobstore/>. This means > data is not modified within Blobstore workings, so it maintains identity > with the original data uploaded by the user. There is no immediate need to > backup cloud data that is already stored in identical state in your system. > > Some tools may not yet work 100% as expected. You already submitted bugs > for that, and we hope these issues are going to be address within > reasonable timeframes. > > In short, the difference in attitude towards accidental deletion or > overwrite originates in our confidence in the highest standards implemented > by our data protection policy > <https://cloud.google.com/security/compliance>. > >> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 8:31 PM, Evan Jones <[email protected]> wrote: > Worst case: We've discussed writing something ourselves multiple times, > that would scan our Datastore and writes entities out in a more useful way, > but we haven't prioritized it. > Evan, can you explain why this is not a high priority? Do you see accidental deletion as unlikely? Thank you, Joshua -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/google-appengine/CABfTu2AHnjvQRfQs2smh%2B-6ZiFTWvJYNtP_rV%2BHVhBFh9nmpZw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
