This problem is a typical application of: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optional_stopping_theorem.
Reading the "Applications" section may ease your concerns about using
expectations. In particular, look at the third bullet point.

On May 15, 11:54 pm, Eagle <[email protected]> wrote:
>        Thanks Pedro, Bharath, & others; finally I have fully
> understood how the calculation of expected number of numbers that land
> in the correct position after X hits, is done. Comments by John & Paul
> Smith also helped in filling the communication gaps, Thanks! I think,
> I have also understood the logic of your method. It goes something
> like this (correct me, if I am wrong)-
> The expected value of the numbers that fall in correct position after
> a hit is 1. If we have problem of sorting, say, 5 numbers, i.e., N=5,
> then after first hit, one of the five numbers gets sorted; Goro now
> puts a finger on it, and the problem is reduced to N=4. By similar
> process, in second hit we come to N=3, in third hit we come to N=2.
> For N=2, the solution is already given in the problem statement
> itself, and that is 2 hits. So, total 5 hits are required for sorting
> N=5 numbers.
>
>        For the sake of science, please ponder over the following
> points-
>
> 1) Is 'expected value' which is average (albeit weighted) value,
> appropriate in the present problem? The way we are calculating this
> value, it so happens that the effect of cases where none of the
> numbers is sorted, becomes zero.
> For N=3, E(sorted numbers) = (1/6)*3 + (1/2)*1 + (1/3)*0 = 1
> For N=4, E(sorted numbers) = (1/24)*4 + (1/4)*2 + (1/3)*1 + (9/24)*0 =
> 1
> We are ignoring the significance of 2 out of 6 events of the sample
> space for N=3, and 9 out of 24 for N=4, because of the way we are
> doing calculation. I have not checked, but I think this ratio must be
> increasing for N=5, 6, etc. The omission of these cases makes me
> uncomfortable. Can we afford to take such a risk?
>
> 2) We have not omitted the significance of unsorted numbers case for
> N=2. There, we did not say, that in one hit one number is expected to
> come at appropriate position, and because the remaining number does
> not require any hit (it gets automatically sorted), the expected
> number of hits (for N=2) is one. We appropriately took the number of
> required hits for N=2 as two.
>
>        Thanking you in advance for your learned and thoughtful
> comments,
>
> Eagle
>
> On May 14, 11:18 pm, Pedro Osório <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I am not offended at all. I'm however starting to get a bit annoyed that you
> > don't pay attention to what I write.
>
> > I have explicitly defined X in that post as "elements that go into the right
> > position after one hit for the array [2 1]" (because that's what you were
> > asking about in your last question " the expected number of elements that
> > are put into position by the first hit is exactly 1")
>
> > Meanwhile, whenever I wrote E[n=whatever], I was talking about the expected
> > number of hits required to sort an array that has "whatever" elements out of
> > position.
>
> > E[n=2] - expected number of *hits* required to sort an array that has 2
> > elements out of place
> > X         - expected number of *elements* that go into the right position
> > after one hit for the array [2 1]
>
> > As you can see, the random variables whose expected values we are computing,
> > don't even refer to the same kind of object. I don't see how you could
> > confuse them. Please pay more attention before complaining.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"google-codejam" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/google-code?hl=en.

Reply via email to