On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 8:02 AM, Arthur Kalmenson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hello Jim,
Hello Arthur >> My favorite IDE is certainly not eclipse, and probably not the best to use >> with Django. The server side can be quickly written and tested independent >> of the client side. I consider that a plus. > > You misunderstood what gregor meant. Gregor meant that if you have a > Java back-end, you can seamlessly debug your application going from > the client side to the server side using any Java IDE (Eclipse, > NetBeans, IDEA, etc). You cannot do this if your front-end is GWT and > back-end is Python. I know the NetBeans IDE has a ruby debugger. If the backend was Ruby, I suppose that it would still not be possible to 'seamlessly' debug from client to server, right? Actually, this is a totally foreign concept to me. The data from client to server is marshalled over an http request and off to a completely different process. Are you saying that the debugging environment handles that? What does it do about asynchronous calls? Do they appear to be synchronous when debugging? >> JSON can be made as fast and json libraries for python already exist. >> So, I seriously doubt anyone is writing JSON serialization from scratch. >> Your server side code probably only needs to be modified with >> self.data.to_json. > > GWT-RPC is actually faster and smaller then JSON (unless you use JS > overlays, which just calls eval). See this: > http://sites.google.com/site/io/gwt-and-client-server-communication It's so easy to work with json, that you can construct a tiny bit of client code to rebuild json object and then use overlays to eval. It's essentially the same as RPC, just without the mystery. >> Using a restful approach, you don't pass objects between client and server. >> The stateless server serves up requests for data. No need to complicate >> the issue. > > If you're using a front-end agnostic approach (i.e. JSON based), then > you wouldn't pass objects between the client and server. However, if > you are able to take advantage of GWT-RPC, with a Java back-end, you > would be able to pass objects to the Java server for persistence and > get objects back for data requests. This has huge advantages in code > maintenance and ease of use. I don't have any experience to know how huge of an advantage that really is. >> Django provides a good ORM and an MVC framework. With it, about >> the only thing you will need to account for is that you support json >> format requests. > > That's an extra layer that you wouldn't have to do if you just used > Django. Huh? >> I would use the independence of GWT to let you choose a backend that >> supports your experience. If server side development with Java is as >> slow as client side development with GWT, I would suggest that there >> are better alternatives for the server side. > > I'd argue the Java back-end has a large number of very high quality > libraries that make server side development easy and efficient. > However, if your experience lies in Django and Python development, you > might be better off with a Django solution. Java back-ends are great > for enterprise quality applications. However, if you're hacking > something together, Python is better choice. > > GWT development is only slow if you are unfamiliar with it. Besides, > GWT is a toolkit, not a framework. It's hard to compare it to Django, > which already includes many features like validation, etc. GWT can be > used to build said frameworks, and from there GWT apps would be a lot > easier and faster to make. My point here is two fold. First, Java coding is not slow because of the programmer, but because of the 100x increase in the amount of code that is required to do the same job as in a dynamic language. Granted, 100x is not always the case, it is just the case for my client side vs server side code. My comment to the original poster (since I know nothing about java server side coding) is that if java server side coding requires as much coding as the client side, then you can probably code much faster using an alternative server side framework. The other issue is GUI's, in this case GWT. Being a backend programmer for many years, I forget the amount of work involved to get a simple GUI up an running. So, part of the perceived development slowness I am experiencing has nothing to do with Java, but Java is certainly not offering a lot of assistance when it comes to reducing the amount of code I need to write. -- Jim Freeze --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google Web Toolkit" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Google-Web-Toolkit?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
