One thing to the Mocking framework: https://mswjs.io it looks indeed very interesting.
In GWT I used to implement the mock implementation in "development time" and remove it in "production time" by using GWT options for different "sourcepath" and "entry point" with help of DI. It works very well. So I never have to run the "server / REST APIs" part to be able to develop the whole UI. Very productive. .... and to try to answer your question: *"what are the obstacles for you to use JS or TS (possibly mixed with Java through J2Cl) for frontend development?"* here you are: 😉 (1) JS sofar is difficult to use for a bit complex UI. Quote from Anders Hejlsberg: "Developers by then had started to build huge JavaScript apps for the browser and were struggling to write them in JavaScript, a language he says lacked key features like modules, classes, and, importantly, a type system for creating order through rules in a program." This interview is a must read: http://bit.ly/AndersHTypeScriptInterview You can see today that all of those a bit complex frameworks use TypeScript instead of JavaScript (VueJS 3.0, Angular, ...) *Conclusion*: JavaScript is in this form today difficult to use. (2) TypeScript is definitely very good as I already said above in this thread. But I cannot see the advantages using TS if you come from Java and can use GWT / J2CL. If you have frontend developers, yes, TS is definitely the way to go since it is more similar to JavaScript. I know that Erich Gamma moves from Java / Eclipse to TypeScript / Visual Studio Code / Electron but sofar I cannot see that VSC is better than Eclipse. So, yes, very interesting to be able to write those things also in Web browser with TypeScript and you can embed it into GitHub as a web editor. Eclipse Che moved from GWT to Eclipse Thea (also TS based): https://developers.redhat.com/blog/2018/12/19/eclipse-che-7-is-coming-and-its-really-hot-2-4 The reason: "Theia is a framework to build web IDEs. It is built in TypeScript and will give contributors a more enjoyable experience with a programming model that is more flexible and easier to use, and makes it faster to deliver their new plugins." But I'm not sure why they could not build plugins based on GWT which is flexible and easier to use. As we know we all like to begin from scratch and don't like the idea of maintenance 😀😅 Introducing TypeScript to a Java team is a different story. The language is the smallest problem but the ecosystem, library, build, CI/CD pipeline, dependencies management, artifacts scanner, etc.(see the presentation of Netflix above). For many companies you mostly have some intelligent forms and for this purpose I don't see that TypeScript has advantages in comparison with Java / GWT / J2CL (of course we need to address the UI frameworks based on TS or GWT / J2CL as well). One thing you should not forget, on-boarding process of new developers and the ability to be a full-stack team. A team which all the developers can do everything, from frontend to server-side implementation (not to have separation between frontend and backend developers). *Conclusion*: TypeScript is the way if you have JavaScript developers. If you are coming from Java with Java developers in team, IMHO GWT / J2CL is the way to go. It is also fun to work with the modern GWT web apps 😀😉👍 Just my 2 ct. t.br...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 29. September 2020 um 13:45:56 UTC+2: > > > On Tuesday, September 29, 2020 at 12:08:36 AM UTC+2, lofid...@gmail.com > wrote: >> >> OK, now I understand you 😉 >> >> Yes, we always have to separate the Client and the Server part. This is >> also GWT best practice. >> >> But if you are using JavaScript on browser you lose the advantages like: >> >> 1. We use *Java* as the language >> >> > Is Java objectively the best language out there to be used as an argument > that way? > > >> >> 1. We have the best *ecosystem* like libraries, frameworks, build >> system and IDEs. >> >> > Please define in which way they're "the best". > In terms of dependency management, NPM and Yarn are probably better than > Maven (but not Gradle, which looks unrivaled on that point). > In terms of build systems, I hope you're not trying to compare anything to > Maven; but I also wonder how you're going to do things like PostCSS, > Imagemin, SVGO, etc. do with a J2Cl toolchain. GWT does some of those (not > all), but the JS frontend ecosystem is the clear winner on that point. > VS Code, and probably (I never used them for non-JVM projects) IntelliJ > IDEA / WebStorm, and I suppose Visual Studio too, are absolutely great IDEs > too for JS and/or TypeScript (and Go, and probably many others). > >> >> 1. We know best design patterns to make our apps maintainable like >> Dependency Injection, Mock Testing and many other just take a look at: >> http://bit.ly/DesignPatternsJava >> >> <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fbit.ly%2FDesignPatternsJava&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNFrp5_s1BE9tzxoZJR67x_UAk6u2w> >> >> > Wow, how condescending! > BTW, as already pointed by Rodolfo, design patterns are language > independent. The "GoF" Design Patterns book has all its examples in C++ and > Smalltalk, not Java; and that link you give lists exactly those patterns > from the book. > I do miss Dependency Injection from time to time in JS devs, but if you > really want/need it, there are ways to do it (React Context for example); > and Angular does DI: > https://angular.io/guide/architecture-services#dependency-injection-di > Mocking is overrated, but far from impossible in JS, including for network > access: https://mswjs.io/ and even though I personally rarely do > automated testing of frontend devs (and that's true of GWT too), the JS > ecosystem has some quite good libraries as well (testing in a browser > environment with GWT is quite "outdated" in comparison: HtmlUnit or the > defunct SeleniumRC, or manually launching your browser; fortunately we're > doing better with J2Cl by leveraging Selenium/WebDriver). > > >> >> 1. … and if you use Java on the server-side with *Spring Framework* >> or *JavaEE* you have *one language* through the whole stack. So, you >> could reuse Validation APIs, Business Rules, Business Model, etc. from >> server to client. >> >> > If you do need to share code, then J2Cl is for you; but that doesn't mean > using Java for the whole client-side app. That's actually exactly what J2Cl > was built for, in replacement for GWT inside Google: leveraging Closure for > web development while being able to share code with the backend through > J2Cl (and mobile native apps, through J2ObjC for iOS). > > Back to your original question: > >> I would like to know, what are the *obstacles* for you as *Java >> developers* not using *Java as programming language for writing Web >> browser apps*. > > > First, I don't consider myself as a "Java developer"; I'm a developer, and > I'm proficient in Java (but also JavaScript and Kotlin, somewhat less in Go > or Python, and I could probably still do good things in PHP if you forced > me to use it). > Now let me return the question: what are the obstacles for you to use JS > or TS (possibly mixed with Java through J2Cl) for frontend development? > > I'm not saying you shouldn't use Java (we wouldn't be there otherwise), > I'm questioning why you wouldn't use something else. > By describing yourself as a Java developer (and praising the Java language > and ecosystem like you do), it looks like maybe it could be because you > don't *know* anything else, treating Java like your golden hammer ( > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_instrument) > > My personal take on it is: it depends. It depends on the project (what it > does, whether you need to leverage some existing Java or JS library, its > size, whether you need to share code with the server and/or native mobile > apps, etc.), and of course the project team and its skills. > >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "GWT Users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/google-web-toolkit/1ba184d5-60cc-4e76-8c05-1b3e8fb55e76n%40googlegroups.com.
