Hi Tim and Andrew,
Development of a Aust Medicines Terminology - designed to be integrated into SCT is part of the NEHTA program. Lots of work already done on it - like the DM+D in the UK.
Cheers
David
---- Dr David G More MB, PhD, FACHI Phone +61-2-9438-2851 Fax +61-2-9906-7038 Skype Username : davidgmore E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 07:49:21 +1100, Tim Churches wrote:
> Andrew McIntyre wrote:
>> Hello Tim,
>>
>>
>> Tuesday, February 21, 2006, 8:36:58 PM, you wrote:
>>
>> TC> Andrew McIntyre wrote:
>>>> Hello Tim,
>>>>
>>>> OK, you can arrow down and select the appropriate concept. Really you need 2 words or a
>>>> very complex word or its to vague for a search. Its also essential to restrict the top
>>>> level concept to a defined parent, such as procedure or clinical finding, as a minimum.
>>>>
>>
>> TC> Um, the attached screenshot shows a tree list of terms containing TC> duodenal. Am I right
>> in thinking that one needs to chose various TC> restrictions as you describe before typing some
>> words to look up? Not TC> quite what I had in mind...
>>
>> No, that's in code, behind the scenes. You need to know what sort of values you want in the
>> field, which you would, in the example its a "Clinical finding" rather than a procedure. In
>> general you want to know what type of code you want in a field, or you may make a nonsensical
>> statement. In this case I typed "Duodenal Ulcer" and the list popped up.
>>
>
> OK, thanks. As an aside, "screencasts" - short movies of software in action, usually with a voice-
> over, seem to be the tool of choice for illustrating such things. We just bought a copy of
> Camtasia for that purpose - several hundred dollars only - and it's the ant's pants. Now, where's
> my Director's Chair. Lights, cameras, action!
>
>>>> Restricting the search is vital as there are 2 many concepts otherwise.
>>>>
>>
>> TC> The trick, Andrew, is to sort the choices by likelihood of being the TC> correct choice.
>>
>> Well if I type "duodenal ulcer" as the free text the choices look pretty correct to me.
>>
>>>> We use some complexity testing before we do a background search. Archetypes are excellent
>>>> for restricting the query.
>>>>
>>
>> TC> Complexity testing? You've lost me there? Something to do with teh TC> entropy of the words
>> (as in password complexity testing)?
>>
>> Yes, if you type "Ulcer" as a search term then there are to many possible choices, if you type
>> "Thrombocytopenia" or
>> "Choledocholithiasis" then a search is worth a go. Finding a reliable rule for this is
>> something that needs some more R&D. Typing "Duodenal ulcer" seems good enough to get a
>> reasonable pick list in this case. Its also what people are likely to call it. Exploring some
>> natural language Processing here is likely to help also. There are 2 snomed CT coding schools
>> however - The "choice restrainers" and the "Natural Language Processing" camp. I probably lean
>> to the former, while wanting to leverage the later.
>>
>
> OK, I understand what you mean now - basically "inverse term frequency" as researchers working in
> information retrieval tend to call it (but yes, it can be more complex than that).
>
>> Its a bit like google, typing "and" is not going to get you very far (NASA interestingly!)
>>
>> The aim of archetypes is to restrict choices for you (You don't have to type them in, they are
>> in the ADL) That way if you choose a report about eg Cholecystectomy, you are not shown
>> concepts about colectomy or cystoscopy or rabies.
>>
>> If people are presented with a reasonable list of choices they might use it. Browsing raw
>> snomed for a term is not practical, you also need to be sure that you are choosing a concept
>> from the correct branch of snomed-CT. We are looking for Name=Value Pairs and unless you choose
>> from the correct branch you may end up with Value=name, name=name or value=value.
>>
>
> Yes, we are in the process of creating a set of extensions to the current Australian standards
> for path reporting to allow path labs to unambiguously report communicable disease notifications
> (to health departments) in a canonical form. That process includes the selection of all relevant
> SNOMED-CT codes from which path labs can chose for any particular notification message. Such pre-
> selection of SCT codes in itself is not a trivial task, we are finding.
>
>> Snomed-CT has a lot of ip behind it, its not just a "Big List" and you can do some really
>> complex things with it, but it does take some investment in time to understand it, I am
>> certainly still learning, but its impressive, if a little flawed in areas. Snomed-CT are aware
>> of some of the flaws and its evolving and improving with time. It seems its going to come to
>> Australia so we may as well use it to its fullest advantage. An Australian Medication extension
>> would be nice.
>>
>
> Agreed on all points.
>
> Tim C
>
>>>> Tuesday, February 21, 2006, 4:22:38 PM, you wrote:
>>>>
>>>> TC> Andrew McIntyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Hello Tim,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TC> Having seen your demo, I still think that the dream of a mechanism TC> in which the
>>>>>> GP types the first few characters of each term into a TC> text box and the system
>>>>>> provides an intelligent set of guesses TC> about whcih SCT concept (or English language
>>>>>> word) was intended TC> and auto-completes it for him/her is feasible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can stop dreaming, its done ;-)
>>>> TC> Andrew,
>>>>
>>>> TC> Jolly good, show us!
>>>>
>>>> TC> Tim C
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>
>>
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