Shekhar Gupta: Hello and welcome to walk the talk. I am Shekhar Gupta in Bombay
’s Worli sea face and my guest this week, well, I
could describe him rock star of tele-evangelism, but surprise of surprises, he
is not preaching what you would expect tele-evangelists to
preach. He is preaching Islam, modern Islam, and not just Islam but his own
interpretation of all the faiths around the world. 43-year-old
Zakir Naik. Welcome to walk the talk
Dr.Zakir Naik: Hi, nice meeting you. It’s a pleasure.
•Shekhar Gupta: Nice meeting you. An Islamic preacher, dressed in suit and tie,
using medium of television, when you would expect in
these times of sort of Talibanisation, people would think that Islamic
preachers are telling Muslims to throw television sets away. You are
a different kind of person
Dr.Zakir Naik: No actually I follow, as you said, that modern Islam , I believe
interpretation of Koran and Hadith . I go back to the original
sources. When I speak about religion, I go back to the original scriptures.
When I speak about Hindu religion I go back to the Veda, when
I speak about Islam I go back to the Koran and the authentic Hadith and then I
present it to the world
•Shekhar Gupta: By doing that you build this following of literally, crores and
crores of people around the world
Dr.Zakir Naik: Ahem ulla. It’s god’s grace.
•Shekhar Gupta: You said you go to the original sources, so are you suggesting
that many others who use the medium of Islam to put
many restrictions, watching television for example, going to a model school,
particularly for women, they are not reading the original
scriptures?
Dr.Zakir Naik: What I believe they may take a verse of the Koran Hadith and
misinterpret it. Maybe there is a scholar who has
misinterpreted it, 50 years back, 100 years back, 200 years back, so they
believe in his view directly, without going to the source. What I
do,
Dr.Zakir Naik: For example if someone says, I am going to do jihad to clean up
the society and he says that pornography should be
removed from society, he’s right. So he’s striving and struggling to remove
obscenity from society which is right. But to say in terms
which is wrong, which is against the Koran and the Hadith, for example the
Koran says in (05:09:20) XXXXX, chapter number 5, verse no:
32, if any human being kills any other human being, whether Muslim or
non-Muslim unless it be for murder or for creating corruption in
the land, it is as though he has killed the whole of humanity. So any Muslim
kills any other non-Muslim, an innocent non-Muslim or a Muslim
that is against the Koran.
Shekhar Gupta: That would apply to the people who went around killing people in
26/11
Dr.Zakir Naik: Hundred per cent. It is against the teaching of the Koran
Hadith. 26/11, 11 September in new york twin tower killing
innocent people even a single Koran goes ahead and says if you kill a single
human being it is as though you have killed the whole of
humanity. One, they have killed thousands in the world trade centre and even
here, 26/11, hundreds, it is totally against the religion
•Shekhar Gupta: And to kill in the name of Islam is unfair to Islam?
Dr.Zakir Naik: Unless, unless the verse says unless he has killed someone else
for justice or created corruption in the land. XXXXXXX
(06:06:18) . So if it falls under these two categories of murder against murder
or spreading corruption in the land, that is the time….
•Shekhar Gupta: I am looking at specific examples like 26/11
Dr.Zakir Naik: Hundred, hundred, hundred per cent wrong. Going in the market
place, blowing up killing innocent people, even non-
Muslim. Even if some non-Muslim has done harm to you, you can’t go and kill
some other non-Muslim. It’s out of the question, it’s totally
against Islam.
•Shekhar Gupta: Right
Dr.Zakir Naik: And if the judge gives the judgment, most of the time, almost
all, the judgment of the Indian judiciary, I respect.
•Shekhar Gupta: You respect...
Dr.Zakir Naik: There may be once or twice I disagree
•Shekhar Gupta: That’s the other thing…if I say if one has to read the
collected works of Dr Zakir Naik, those are in your DVDs, very
fascinating thing is your faith in the Indian system, the constitution, the
judiciary, it’s so refreshing
Dr.Zakir Naik: That’s right, that’s right.
•Shekhar Gupta: Where does that come from?
Dr.Zakir Naik: What I believe that when I go and see the background, I am a
person who observe the thing objectively, rather than going
emotionally and news you know. When I see that even innocent people, whether
Muslim or non-Muslim, if they are harassed by certain
people for their own motives, finally judicial system comes to their help. You
may get that help maybe 2 years later, or 5 years later, or 10
years later, but they get that clean chit. So seeing that I have more faith in
the judicial system. That’s the reason when they ask me about
Sadhvi, I say she is neither good nor bad, neither terrorist, neither saint,
but that is not reported in the paper that Dr Zakir Naik is neutral
to a Sadhvi. Because I use the same scale for a Muslim or non-Muslim.
Shekhar Gupta: Right. For Osama as well as Sadhvi
Dr.Zakir Naik: That’s right
•Shekhar Gupta: So, and what about the constitution? Constitution is what gives
every citizen an equal right but there are many in the
Muslim community in particular who complain that this is not good enough, that
the Indian system is not good enough, who lack faith in the
system
Dr.Zakir Naik: As far as the Indian Constitution is concerned, I’ve said that
in my lecture many times, that I am proud to be an Indian.
•Shekhar Gupta: Or a history of thousand years of co-existence
Dr.Zakir Naik: Yes we know India was ruled by Muslims for a 1000 years, the
Mughals, at the time India was on the top of the world, no.1
country, super power in the world was India . Unfortunately the British came,
they took out the wealth, and they created this divide
between the Hindu and the Muslim
Shekhar Gupta: Right
Dr.Zakir Naik: I feel that the Hindus and Muslims used to live harmoniously
together. It is due to the British policy of divide and rule that
caused all this friction. But what I feel that because there is no animosity in
terms like, that what we realize that, now what we feel, what
we see a few instances it is more because I have said these people are being
brainwashed. But as a whole the Indian Muslims they feel
like taking to the Koran, they feel like taking to the Hadith, so that’s the
reason that I …..
•Shekhar Gupta: That Indian Muslims are more settled in their minds about their
existence
Dr.Zakir Naik: That’s right
•Shekhar Gupta: Did you have…have you spoken very much about the two-nation
theory?
Dr.Zakir Naik: Two nation theory means about the India and Pakistan
•Shekhar Gupta: India and Pakistan …
Dr.Zakir Naik: That every one in India and Pakistan was…..
•Shekhar Gupta: No, no what’s your view. Because of this there is another view
that if India had not got divided then it would have been
one country…..
Dr.Zakir Naik: I am for it
•Shekhar Gupta: …..with 45 crore Muslims
Dr.Zakir Naik: I believe the worst thing that happened to this country was the
division, the Partition shouldn’t have taken place. It was
better, for the Muslims, if they lived as one country
•Shekhar Gupta: Why do you feel so? Let’s talk about it
Dr.Zakir Naik: Because I believe that in many ways it would have been a bigger
force, imagine the resources of India and Pakistan
Shekhar Gupta: You have followers in Pakistan , they listen to you
Dr.Zakir Naik: More than India , in fact, the viewers in Pakistan are much more
•Shekhar Gupta: In fact, I for the first time heard of you from a Pakistani
friend, a journalist. Who said, I see the rise of this new star from
Bombay and I had not heard of you before that, I must admit that…
Dr.Zakir Naik: I don’t antagonize my viewers in Pakistan because of my views
•Shekhar Gupta: Wonderful Pakistani columnist called Khalid Ahmed had told me
this. So you study a situation like Kashmir, India-
Pakistan, the key to permanent peace in the sub-continent, countries are now
separate, they will not come together, but key to maybe a
situation where we become like Europe, where boundaries matter less and less
and people can get together, lies to solving the Kashmir
problem. Do you have a solution?
Dr.Zakir Naik: I don’t have a solution but I remember that when I was called to
give a talk in Kashmir in the year 2003 where there was lot
of problem, much more than today. Finally I went there and the governor of
Kashmir , he called me and he was an ex-army man, he called
me and said you have a large following
•Shekhar Gupta: Gen Sinha
Dr.Zakir Naik: Gen Sinha, yeah, correct. Thing what I believe, the people of
Kashmir they are fed up and this conflict is mainly due to
politicians. More politically motivated and what we find if there is some
problem in the internal in India, the politician create a problem in
Kashmir and the whole and all attention is diverted there to Pakistan. So this
is used as a trump card, and if they falter something, if they
do mistake in their view of how to handle politics in India , they blow up the
issue of Kashmir and Pakistan , so everyone’s mind is diverted
there. So this is like a trump card kept by politicians
•Shekhar Gupta: And the same happens on that side
•Shekhar Gupta: Looking forward to it, because one of the things you do….
Dr.Zakir Naik: I wont be a competition to NDTV…(laughs)
•Shekhar Gupta: (laughs) Not at all in fact you had agreed to be on this show,
we should improve the viewership. One of the fascinating
things you do is to have these religious debates, with leaders of other
communities. This is the time when the world is talking about
dialogue of civilizations, of communities. Which one did you enjoy most of all?
Dr.Zakir Naik: There were quite a few I had.
•Shekhar Gupta: The Pope, he hasn’t quite accepted your offer
Dr.Zakir Naik: The one abroad, internationally, when I had been to America ,
there was a Christian missionary who wrote a book saying
there are 30 scientific errors in the Koran. You are a medical doctor, I am a
medical doctor, so someone challenged us to have a
dialogue. So I went to Chicago and there we had dialogue by the name of Bible
and the Koran in the light of Science. That I enjoyed. In
India it was Sri Sri Ravishankar when we launched our satellite channel Peace
TV
•Shekhar Gupta: That’s a delightful conversation
Dr.Zakir Naik: And the topic was Concept of God in Islam and Hinduism in the
light of the sacred scriptures. So we are supposed to say
what the sacred scriptures speak about the Almighty God. And there my main
purpose was to tell to the people that the basic concept of
god in Islam and Hindu is the same - one god, don’t do idol worship, he is the
one to be worshipped. And I always believe in going to the
scriptures than quoting the view of any particular scholar
•Shekhar Gupta: And you don’t attack another religion
Dr.Zakir Naik: I don’t. Some people may conceive or consider attacking. My main
reason is to get them together.
•Shekhar Gupta: Getting people together is a wonderful note to end this
conversation on Dr Zakir Naik. So nice to have you on walk the
talk.
Dr.Zakir Naik: It’s a pleasure
•Shekhar Gupta: I hope you keep on growing in popularity, ….
Dr.Zakir Naik: Insha Allah
•Shekhar Gupta: …..keep on taking the message of modern religion, modern
Spirituality to wider and wider audiences and I do hope you
stay out of politics. Thank you very much
Dr.Zakir Naik: Thank you
