hi see the link for zardar's article weird science. http://www.newstatesman.com/books/2008/08/quran-muslim-scientific
regards, Ahmed Rafeek On 8/24/08, damodar prasad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I also think the same way as Aryakrishnan says. A link to Ziauddin Zardar's > article I was also looking for. > > However, I have different points to highlight. > > Linking to source is good. But I don't think it has to be followed on all > occassions religioulsy just bcoz over some previous fights. People overcome > such silly fights. But in case if one ask for the source, you need to > provide. Thats all. If you cant find it, Just say a "sorry". > What else? > > *even as you source something, it is to make a point. Isn't it? In a way > you are responsible for the content not the "source". Hence you have to > defend it and cannot sulk from it referring to the source*. If I quote > Marx from a source, Can Marx come here and defend. > > Nobody is here writing a footnoted print dissertation, which anyway nobody > will read. This is interactive,where questions can be asked immediately and > read online. > > On edit, the reader him/her self can edit and read. Editing, sometimes, is > also self-regulation. Y such regulations in this space. > > Ahmed, tradition as Aryankrishnan say can be followed. But upsetting such > traditions is what makes you on- the- Line. so that new defenses and > arguments will follow suit. > > > > On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 12:23 PM, ahmed rafeek j <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > >> dear Aryan, >> thanks for your comments. will certainly take them seriously, promise. >> >> love >> Ahmed Rafeek >> >> >> On 8/23/08, aryakrishnan ramakrishnan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Dear Ahmed Rafeek, >>> >>> Please consider this seriously. Ahmed Rafeek's posts were known for the >>> source from where he gets the articles. Please donot forget the tradition of >>> sourcing which Ahmed used to follow. Also, before you post an article, it >>> would be great if you could edit it a little bit, not only to avoid the >>> unnecessary hyper links, but also to keep up consistency. This is very easy, >>> when you paste, you have to make it as plain text before you post it. >>> >>> Also donot forget, Ahmed's requests/ fights with VenuGopal for sending >>> information from webpages without basic editing and without proper sources. >>> >>> Thanks you >>> >>> Aryan >>> >>> On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 7:20 PM, ahmed rafeek j < >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>>> Weird science >>>> >>>> Ziauddin Sardar <http://www.newstatesman.com/writers/ziauddin_sardar> >>>> >>>> Published 21 August 2008 >>>> >>>> - 50 >>>> comments<http://www.newstatesman.com/books/2008/08/quran-muslim-scientific#reader-comments> >>>> - Print >>>> version<http://www.newstatesman.com/books/2008/08/print%20this%20artcle> >>>> - >>>> Listen<http://asp.readspeaker.net/cgi-bin/newstatesmanrsone?customerid=1003373%E2%8C%A9=en&url=http://www.newstatesman.com/200808210025> >>>> - RSS <http://www.newstatesman.com/feeds/contents.rss> >>>> >>>> According to some Muslim scholars, everything from genetics to robotics >>>> and space travel is described in the Quran. What nonsense >>>> >>>> Science has acquired a new meaning in certain Muslim circles. When >>>> classical Muslim scholars declared that "whosoever does not know astronomy >>>> or anatomy is deficient in the knowledge of God", they were emphasising the >>>> importance of the scientific spirit in Islam and encouraging the pursuit of >>>> empirical science. But today, to a significant section of Muslims, science >>>> includes the discovery of "scientific miracles" in the Quran. >>>> >>>> The Quran does contain many verses that point towards nature, and >>>> constantly asks its readers to reflect on the wonders of the cosmos. >>>> "Travel >>>> throughout the earth and see how He brings life into being" (29:20) is a >>>> piece of advice we frequently find in the Muslim sacred text. "Behold," we >>>> read elsewhere, "in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the >>>> alternation of night and day, there are indeed signs for men of >>>> understanding . . ." (3:190). >>>> >>>> But these verses do not have any specific scientific content - they >>>> simply urge believers to study nature and reflect on the awe-inspiring >>>> diversity and complexity of the universe. The emphasis in many of these >>>> verses, such as "The sun and the moon follow courses (exactly) computed; >>>> and >>>> the stars and the trees both prostrate in adoration; and the heavens He has >>>> raised high, and He has set up the balance" (55:5-7), is on the general >>>> predictability of physical phenomena. >>>> >>>> It requires considerable mental gymnastics and distortions to find >>>> scientific facts or theories in these verses. Yet, this height of folly is >>>> a >>>> global craze in Muslim societies, as is a popular literature known as * >>>> ijaz*, or "scientific miracles of the Quran". Islamic bookshops are >>>> littered with this literature, television preachers talk endlessly about >>>> how >>>> many different scientific theories can be found in the Quran, and numerous >>>> websites are devoted to explaining the phenomenon. It can seem as if * >>>> ijaz* literature has taken total control of the Muslim imagination. >>>> >>>> "Almost everything, from relativity, quantum mechanics, Big Bang theory, >>>> black holes and pulsars, genetics, embryology, modern geology, >>>> thermodynamics, even the laser and hydrogen fuel cells, have been 'found' >>>> in >>>> the Quran," says Nidhal Guessoum, professor of astrophysics at the American >>>> University of Sharjah. Whereas centuries ago, Muslim mathematicians >>>> discovered algebra (and led the world in countless fields of knowledge), >>>> some of today's believers look to the Quran for equations to yield the >>>> value >>>> of the speed of light or the age of the universe, and other bewildering >>>> feats. >>>> >>>> The tendency to read science in the Quran has a long history. In the >>>> 1950s, for example, when the US and the Soviet Union were competing to put >>>> a >>>> man in space, pamphlets appeared in India and Pakistan in which Quranic >>>> verses on the all-powerful nature of God were quoted to "prove" that manned >>>> space flight would never happen. However, for the current manifestation of >>>> *ijaz*, we need to thank not writers from the *madrasas* of the Middle >>>> East, but two western professors - neither man a Muslim. >>>> >>>> It began in 1976, with the publication of *The Bible, the Quran and >>>> Science* by Maurice Bucaille, a French surgeon who had served the Saudi >>>> monarchy and acquired his basic knowledge of the Quran in the kingdom. He >>>> set out to examine "the holy scriptures in the light of modern knowledge", >>>> focusing on astronomy, the earth, and the animal and vegetable kingdoms. >>>> His >>>> conclusion was that "it is impossible not to admit the existence of >>>> scientific errors in the Bible". In contrast: "The Quran most definitely >>>> did >>>> not contain a single proposition at variance with the most firmly >>>> established modern knowledge." Many Muslims embraced Bucaille's thesis as >>>> proof of the divine origins of the Quran. >>>> >>>> *Ijaz* literature received a further boost almost a decade later with >>>> the publication of the paper *Highlights of Human Embryology in the >>>> Quran and the Hadith* by Keith Moore, a Canadian professor of anatomy >>>> who was then teaching in Saudi Arabia. Moore illustrated certain verses >>>> from >>>> the Quran with clinical drawings and textbook descriptions. For example, >>>> the >>>> verse "We created man from a drop of mingled fluid" (76:2) is explained by >>>> Moore as referring to the mixture of a small quantity of sperm with the >>>> oocyte and its follicular fluid. >>>> >>>> He was quite a performer, and stunned the gathering at the seventh Saudi >>>> Medical Meeting, held in 1982 in Dam mam. He read out the Quranic verses: >>>> "We have created man from the essence of clay, then We placed him as a drop >>>> of fluid in a safe place, then We made that drop into a clinging form, and >>>> made the form into a lump of flesh, and We made the lump into bones, and We >>>> clothed these bones with flesh, and We made him into other forms . . ." >>>> (23:12-14). >>>> >>>> Moore then shaped some Plasticine to resemble an embryo at 28 days and >>>> dug his teeth into it. The chewed Plasticine, he claimed, was an exact copy >>>> of the embryo, with his teeth marks resembling the embryo's somites (the >>>> vertebral column and musculature). He displayed photographs to show that >>>> bones begin to form in the embryo at six weeks, and muscles attach to them. >>>> By the seventh week, the bones give a human shape to the embryo; ears and >>>> eyes begin to form by the fourth week and are visible by the sixth. All >>>> these developments, Moore claimed, fit the Quranic description exactly. >>>> >>>> Both Bucaille and Moore played on the inferiority complex of influential >>>> Saudis, suggesting that the Quran was a scientific treatise and proof that >>>> Muslims were modern long before the modern world and modern science. The >>>> Saudi government poured millions into *ijaz* literature. The Commission >>>> on Scientific Signs in the Quran and Sunnah was established. The first >>>> international conference on the subject was held in Islamabad, in 1987. >>>> Moore's paper was included in an illustrated study: *Human Development >>>> As Described in the Quran and Sunnah*. The field has been growing >>>> exponentially ever since. >>>> >>>> Guessoum, who is about to publish a book on *ijaz* literature, says >>>> that most works on scientific miracles follow a set pattern. They start >>>> with >>>> a verse of the Quran and look for concordance between scientific results >>>> and >>>> Quranic statements. For example, one would start from the verse "So verily >>>> I >>>> swear by the stars that run and hide . . ." (81:15-16) and quickly declare >>>> that it refers to black holes, or take the verse "[I swear by] the Moon in >>>> her fullness; that ye shall journey on from stage to stage" (84:18-19) and >>>> decide it refers to space travel. And so on. "What is meant to be >>>> allegorical and poetic is transformed into products of science," Guessoum >>>> says. >>>> >>>> These days, the biggest propagator of* ijaz* literature is Harun Yahya >>>> (real name Adnan Oktar), a Turkish creationist. He has published scores of >>>> pamphlets and books that are heavily subsidised and sold very cheaply. The >>>> latest, *Miracles of the Quran*, explains the verses of the Quran "in >>>> such a way as to leave no room for doubt or question marks". The author >>>> suggests that the verse "We have sent down iron in which there lies great >>>> force and which has many uses for mankind" (57:25) is a "significant >>>> scientific miracle", because "modern astronomical findings have disclosed >>>> that iron found in our world has come from the giant stars in outer space". >>>> The verse "Glory be to Him Who created all the pair of things that the >>>> earth >>>> produces" (36:36) is claimed to predict anti-matter. >>>> >>>> But these inanities are not limited to crackpots. "Even respected >>>> university professors believe this nonsense," Guessoum says. "In my own >>>> university, around 70 per cent of science professors subscribe to the view >>>> that the Quran is full of scientific content, facts as well as theories." >>>> Indeed, many respected scientists have contributed to the literature. Prime >>>> among these is *The Geological Concepts of Mountains in the Quran*(1991). >>>> Written by the Egyptian scientist Zaghloul el-Naggar, who held the >>>> chair of geology at King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals in >>>> Dhahran, Saudi Arabia, the book has gone through numerous editions. It was >>>> so successful that el-Naggar gave up teaching to become the chair of the >>>> Committee of Scientific Notions in the Glorious Quran, established by the >>>> Supreme Council of Islamic Affairs in Cairo. Today, he lectures on "geology >>>> in the Quran" and CDs of his talks sell out. >>>> >>>> The latest tome on the subject is *The Computer Universe: a Scientific >>>> Rendering of the Holy Quran* by P A Wahid, the former dean of the >>>> Faculty of Agriculture at Kerala Agricultural University. In the book, he >>>> develops a model of science in the Quran and purports to explain the >>>> existence of angels ("intelligent robots in Allah's kingdom"), the Divine >>>> Master Plan, and how the Quran predicted the advent of chemistry and >>>> biology. Ehsan Masood, who writes on science in developing countries for >>>> *Nature*, recounts how he "once met a former chief scientist to a >>>> defence ministry who told me excitedly he was refining a research paper >>>> that >>>> would use mathematics to prove the existence of angels". >>>> >>>> All their own creation >>>> >>>> The underlying message of these books is that all the science you need >>>> is in the Quran - no need to get your hands dirty in a lab or work within >>>> mainstream theories. But there is an overt message, too: works such as >>>> those >>>> of Wahid and el-Naggar are aggressively anti-evolution. Many more Muslim >>>> scientists, says Guessoum, are "scientists by day and creationists by >>>> night". >>>> >>>> Creationism is not at all a natural Muslim position. In the early 10th >>>> century, Muhammad al-Nakhshabi wrote in *The Book of the Yield:* "While >>>> man has sprung from sentient creatures, these have sprung from plants, and >>>> these in turn from combined substances." In *Life of Hai* by the >>>> 12th-century Andalusian philosopher ibn Tufayl, evolution is strongly >>>> emphasised. Hai is "spontaneously generated", emerges from the slime, >>>> evolves through various stages and discovers the power of reason to shape >>>> his world and to understand the universe. In contrast, creationism has >>>> taken >>>> hold over the past decade in Muslim societies - Turkey, for example, came >>>> last, just behind the US, in a recent survey of 34 countries on public >>>> acceptance of evolution. >>>> >>>> *Ijaz* literature goes hand in hand with creationism, though Masood >>>> says that Muslim creationists are strongly influenced by their American >>>> Christian counterparts: "The two groups genuinely believe that the destiny >>>> of Islam and Christianity is to work together to defeat evolution and that >>>> this alliance is the answer to the clash of civilisations." >>>> >>>> Yahya's lavishly illustrated tome *Atlas of Creation* is widely >>>> distributed. In Turkey, it anonymously turned up in numerous schools and >>>> libraries. Last year, it was sent unsolicited to schools across France, >>>> prompting the education ministry to proscribe the volume. The >>>> *Atlas*blames everything, from Nazism to terrorism, on evolution. "It >>>> contains lie >>>> upon lie upon lie," says Jean Staune, visiting lecturer in philosophy of >>>> sciences at the HEC School of Management in Paris, who has made a special >>>> study of Harun Yahya's works. "It denigrates the faith which it purports to >>>> support." >>>> >>>> And we can say the same about all literature, popular or academic, that >>>> purports to discover "scientific miracles" in the Quran. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Green Youth Movement" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
