Dear Jenny, You ignore certain critical traditions and go on talking about Sathyagraha and Panchayathi Raj, which is a talk that started some sixty years ago..
Dear Jenny, This is the place where you are totally guided by prejudices. Just when you see words like satyagraha and panchayati Raj, you simply judge that nothing new is said.( and if somebody were to use gender/caste sort of jargons and go on establishing conservative positins on gandhi, you will be happy. that shows you share certain values with certain other peple and you form an academic community. ya, I am one who refuse to be part of such community norms.) You are trying to stipulate the terms of discussion. Sorry, I won't comply. You simply don't have any respect to others like you. You believe you are the only champions of all poilitcal radicalism in this country. Otherwise why this sort of branding? Who are you to brand and judge evrything based on your assumptions and prejudices? the attempt was to engage with the texts oof gandhi in a critical way. Your attempt was not o engage with report/text but the individuals. I do respond to Luisa's response as that took the text seriously. Ranju, Nizar kinda bujis and Dileeps of the world...:) Ya..that is the trap you want everybody to fall na? Why are you so afraid to engage with any text? I don't think the report I have posted is beyong criticism. i rrefuse to take up personal attacks. and please don't speak on behalf of all dlaits.. At least K K baburaj was present and he was happy to enage with the text.. On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 7:17 AM, ranju radha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > dilip, > chengara struggle is gandhian? This is the worst statement one can ever > make and I request NIzar Ahmed to apologise for humiliating the struggle of > chengara. > this s like saying: just bz all the struggles waged by Dalits under the > leadership of AYou ignore certain critical traditions and go on talking > about Sathyagraha > and Panchayathi Raj, which is a talk that started some sixty years > ago..mbedkar were peaceful and non-violent, it s gandhian. how horrible the > logic !! > People of chengara have rejected GAndhi and EMS . Why should NIzar kinda > bujis want to impose it on them? > > and abt ur take on "modern", i agree. but would like to point out that > modern could be as traditional as tradition. these days postmodern gandhi s > also availble on sale. > when talking from dalit perspective i would defenitly attach a 'positive' > and 'emancipatory' value to 'modernity' knowing clearly that it need to be > problematically looked at. for a Dalit the scope that modernity > offered would never be possible with 'tradition'. Gandhian modernsim was > rooted in the tradtion of caste heirarchy and savarna values. DAlits > could never become citizens in that imagination. the possibility (at least a > minutest) is outside that. That is why Ambedkar asked Dalits to "Come out of > Gandhian villages and go to cities. it s a spiritual and political call. it > chaged the Dalit world. the project is not finished yet. and to remind u > that city is not an end in itself. > Gandhi would never be the path for Dalits. it can;\'t be, even if NIzars > and dilips try to impose it on them. > DALITS HAVE OUTRIGhTLY REJECTED GANDHI. > regards > > On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 2:36 AM, jenny rowena <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > >> >> Sorry i sent off that half-written piece, without knowing.. >> >> Dileep , >> >> You ignore certain critical traditions and go on talking about Sathyagraha >> >> and Panchayathi Raj, which is a talk that started some sixty years ago.. >> and when some others bring attention to some alternate ways of thinking >> about the same subject, you turn the tables on them and project your >> own problems into them? >> >> Can you please follow your own advice about critical debate, and tell me >> what >> makes you think i am intolerant. I was just drawing attention to the fact >> that Venugopal's >> post with so much informatin on gandhi was being ignored, and then >> connecting it to the >> fact that caste was not brought into the discussion, also .. >> >> And i was not asking the seminar to "mention" Chengara. I was referring to >> the point >> that in talking about Gandhi, you cannot forget the issue of caste, which >> had come alive >> after the Chengara issue.. >> >> Who is Ajay Skaria? I saw similarities in the seminar on Gandhi that >> happened in Hyderabad, >> with people like Ajay Skaria.. and in the report you gave.. that is why i >> mentioned him. >> >> and you are the one who seems to be angry.. >> >> jenny >> >> 2. Jenny, >>> on post Chengara scenario, there ofcourse were serius deliberations in >>> the session. >>> ( why are you so intolerent of a debate where about thirty people met -- >>> everybody except two or three were nonacademicians-- and had a live >>> discussion on certain important political issues ? who is Ajay Skaria? Why >>> do you transfer such anger to this sphere?) >>> >>> Nizar observed that Chengara struggle is Gandhian in nature due to the >>> readiness to self injury but the present day state and civil society is more >>> brutal than the British. It doesn't mind even if the >>> struggling people die. Thus here government is resorting to Gandhian >>> method , waiting patiently for the people to change ther mind >>> >> >> >> On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 2:25 AM, jenny rowena <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 10:58 PM, Dileep Raj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ( I really don't understand why people exhort to refrain from >>>> engaging in critical debates and be satisfied with chanting certain >>>> manthras.While somebody claim that everything is said and done on >>>> certain topics, >>>> and everybody should content with uncritical repetition of >>>> certain 'critical' traditions... and show intolerence toward all >>>> differences, >>>> and even worse, brand everybody referring to certain names as >>>> reactionaries... I simply feel like ignoring it.) >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>> You ignore certain critical traditions and go on talking about >>> Sathyagraha >>> and Panchayathi Raj, which is a talk that started some sixty years ago.. >>> and when some others bring attention to some alternate ways of thinking >>> about the same subject, you turn the tables on them and project your >>> own problems into them? >>> >>> 1.*Really? and modern?? >>> what kind of discussions take place there in GAndhi's (savarna) raj? >>> * >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>>> Ranju, >>>> This is as rediculous as retorting "Really?Modern?" to somebody who say >>>> Hindu fundamentalism is modern not, traditional!! >>>> >>>> the point was, panchayat is a state, umpire, arbitrar, whihc works on >>>> hierarchy. >>>> Gandhi does not deny decision making within it . Its not that Gandhi >>>> stick to statelessness. >>>> Its only that his state is small. >>>> >>>> The moment one come across "modern" or "discussion' why should some >>>> (positive) values be ascribed to it? >>>> >>>> 2. Jenny, >>>> on post Chengara scenario, there ofcourse were serius deliberations in >>>> the session. >>>> ( why are you so intolerent of a debate where about thirty people met -- >>>> everybody except two or three were nonacademicians-- and had a live >>>> discussion on certain important political issues ? who is Ajay Skaria? Why >>>> do you transfer such anger to this sphere?) >>>> >>>> Nizar observed that Chengara struggle is Gandhian in nature due to the >>>> readiness to self injury but the present day state and civil society is >>>> more >>>> brutal than the British. It doesn't mind even if the >>>> struggling people die. Thus here government is resorting to Gandhian >>>> method , waiting patiently for the people to change ther mind !! >>>> >>>> >>>> Can you please follow your own advice about critical debate, and tell >>>> me what makes you think i am intolerant. >>>> >>> When there is a report on a seminar with no reference to the issue of >>> Caste, and there is a cliched debate >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- Dileep R I thuravoor --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Green Youth Movement" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
