Thanks Mr. Venu.
But I am not sure what I should glean out of these postings.
I will wait for your comments to follow.
James.

2008/11/13 venukm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>
> Dear James Michael,
> I just now had a fresh reading of text from Ambedkar written in
> early1940s.
> I wish to share a few excerpts with you and everybody else here, my
> comments reserved for another occasion.
> Thanks,Venu.
>
> "..Most people do not realize that society can practise tyranny and
> oppression against an individual in a far greater degree than a
> Government can. The means and scope that are open to society for
> oppression are more extensive than those that are open to Government,
> also they are far more effective. What punishment in the penal code is
> comparable in its magnitude and its severity to excommunication ?"
> "Indeed he showed a high degree of courage. For let is be remembered
> that he lived in times when social and religious customs however gross
> and unmoral were regarded as sacrosanct and when any doubt questioning
> their divine and moral basis was regarded not merely as heterodoxy but
> as intolerable blasphemy and sacrilege...."
>
> "...The Hindu philosophers had. both their philosophy and their Manu
> held apart in two hands, the right not knowing what the left had. The
> Hindu is never troubled by their inconsistency, As to their social
> system, can things be worst ? The Caste system is in itself a
> degenerate form of the Chaturvarnya which is the ideal of the Hindu.
> How can anybody who is not  a congenital idiot accept Chaturvarnya as
> the ideal form of society ? Individually and socially it is a folly
> and a crime. One class and one class alone to be entitled to education
> and learning! One class and one class alone to be entitled to arms!
> One class and one class alone to trade! One class and one class alone
> to serve! For the Individual the consequences are obvious. Where can
> you find a learned man who has no means of livelihood who will not
> degrade his education. ? Where can you find a soldier with no
> education and culture who will use his arms to conserve and not to
> destroy ? Where can you find a merchant with nothing but the
> acquisitive instinct to follow who will not descend to the level of
> the brute ? Where can you find the servant who is not to acquire
> education, who is not to own arms and who is not to possess other
> means of livelihood to be a man as his maker intended him to be ? If
> baneful to the individual it makes society vulnerable. It is not
> enough for a social structure to be good for a fair weather. It must
> be able to weather the storm. Can the Hindu caste  system stand the
> gale and the wind of an aggression ? It is obvious that it
> cannot....."
> "...No wonder the Hindu Society had its moral bonds loosened to a
> dangerous point. The East India Company had in 1819 to pass a
> Regulation (VII of 1819) to put a stop to this moral degeneracy. The
> preamble to the Regulation says that women were employed wholesale to
> entice and take away the wives or female children for purposes of
> prostitution, and it was common practice among husbands and fathers to
> desert their families and children. Public conscience there was none,
> and in the absence of conscience it was futile to expect moral
> indignation against the social wrongs. Indeed the Brahmins were
> engaged in defending every wrong for the simple reason that they lived
> on them. They defended Untouchability which condemned millions to the
> lot of the helot. They defended caste, they defended female child
> marriage and they defended enforced widowhood—the two great props of
> the Caste system. They defended the burning of widows, and they
> defended the social system of graded inequality with its rule of
> hypergamy which led the Rajputs to kill in their thousands the
> daughters that were born to them. What shames ! What wrongs! Can such
> a society show its face before civilized nations ? Can such a society
> hope to survive ? Such were the questions which Ranade asked. He
> concluded that on only one condition it could be saved—namely,
> rigorous social reform....."
>
> "...His (Ranade's) greatest opponents however came from the political
> school of the intelligentsia. These politicals developed a new thesis.
> According to that thesis political reform was to have precedence over
> social reform."
>
> "..The thesis caught the imagination of the people. If there was one
> single cause to which the blocking of the Social Reform movement could
> be attributed, it was this cry of political reform. The thesis is
> unsupportable, and I have no doubt that the opponents of Ranade were
> wrong and in pursuing it did not serve the best interests of the
> country..".
>
> "..The idea of making a gift of fundamental rights to every individual
> is no doubt very laudable. The question is how to make them
> effective ? 'The prevalent. view is that once rights are enacted in a
> law then they are safeguarded. This again is an unwarranted
> assumption. As experience proves, rights are protected not by law but
> by the social and moral conscience of society. If social conscience is
> such that it is prepared to recognizes the rights which law chooses to
> enact rights will be safe and secure. But if the fundamental rights
> are opposed by the community, no Law no Parliament, no judiciary can
> guarantee them in the real sense of the  word.."
>
> "..The formal framework of democracy is of no value and would indeed
> be a misfit if there was no social democracy. The politicals never
> realized that democracy was not a form of Government. It was
> essentially a form of society. It may not be necessary for a
> democratic society to be marked by unity, by community of purpose, by
> loyalty to public ends and by mutuality of sympathy. But it does
> unmistakably involve two things. The first is an attitude of mind, an
> attitude of respect and equality towards their fellows. The second is
> a social organization free from rigid social barriers. Democracy is
> incompatible and inconsistent with isolation and exclusiveness,
> resulting in the distinction between the privileged and the
> unprivileged. Unfortunately, the opponents of Ranade were never able
> to realize the truth of this fact..."
>
> "..Ranade was not only wise but he was also logical. He told his
> opponents against playing the part of Political Radicals and Social
> Tones. In clear and unmistakable terms he warned them saying :
> " You canned be liberal by halves. You cannot be liberal in politics
> and conservative in religion. The heart and the head must go together.
> You cannot cultivate your intellect, enrich your mind, enlarge the
> sphere of your political rights and  privileges, and at the same time
> keep your hearts closed and cramped. It is an idle dream to expect men
> to remain enchained and enshackled in their own superstition and
> social evils, while they  are struggling hard to win rights and
> privileges from their rulers. Before long these vain dreamers will
> find their dreams lost."..."
>
>
> "...Who are the present day politicians with whom Ranade is to be
> compared ? Ranade was a great politician of his day. He must therefore
> be compared with the greatest of today. We have on the horizon of
> India two great men, so big that they could be identified without
> being named—Gandhi and Jinnah. What sort of a history they will make
> may be a matter for posterity to tell. For us it is enough that they
> do indisputably make headlines for the Press. They hold leading
> strings. One leads the Hindus, the other leads the Muslims. They are
> the idols and heroes of the hour. I propose to compare them with
> Ranade. How do they compare with Ranade ? It is necessary to make some
> observations upon their temperaments and methods with which they have
> now familiarized us. I can give only my impressions of them, for what
> they are worth. The first thing that strikes me is that it would be
> difficult to find two persons who would rival them for their colossal
> egotism, to whom personal ascendancy is everything and the cause of
> the country a mere counter on the table. They have made Indian
> politics a matter of personal feud. Consequences have no terror for
> them ; indeed they do not occur to them until they happen. When they
> do happen they either forget the cause, or if they remember it, they
> overlook it with a complacency which saves them from any remorse. They
> choose to stand on a pedestal of splendid isolation. They wall
> themselves off from their equals. They prefer to open themselves to
> their inferiors. They are very unhappy at and impatient of criticism,
> but are very happy to be fawned upon by flunkeys. Both have developed
> a wonderful stagecraft and arrange things in such a way that they are
> always in the limelight wherever they go. Each of course claims to be
> supreme. If supremacy was their only claim, it would be a small
> wonder. In addition to supremacy each claims infallibility for
> himself. "
> "Politics in the hands of these two great men have become a
> competition in extravaganza. If Mr. Gandhi is known as Mahatma, Mr.
> Jinnah must be known as Qaid-i-Azim. If Gandhi has the Congress, Mr.
> Jinnah must have the Muslim League. If the Congress has a Working
> Committee and the All-India Congress Committee, the Muslim League must
> have its Working Committee and its Council. The session of the
> Congress must be followed by a session of the League. It the Congress
> issues a statement the League must also follow suit. If the Congress
> passes a Resolution of 17,000 words, the Muslim League's Resolution
> must exceed it by at least a thousand words. If the Congress President
> has a Press Conference, the Muslim League President must have his. If
> the Congress must address an: appeal to the United Nations, the Muslim
> League must not allow itself to be outbidden. When is all this to end?
> When is there to be a settlement? There are no near prospects. They
> will not meet, except on preposterous conditions. Jinnah insists that
> Gandhi should admit that he is a Hindu. Gandhi insists that Jinnah
> should admit that he is one of the leaders of the Muslims. Never has
> there been such a deplorable state of bankruptcy of statesmanship as
> one sees in these two leaders of India. They are making long and
> interminable speeches, like lawyers whose trade it is to contest
> everything, concede nothing and talk by the hour. Suggest anything by
> way of solution for the deadlock to either of them, and it is met by
> an everlasting " Nay ". Neither will consider a solution of the
> problems which is not eternal. Between them Indian politics has become
> "frozen" to use a well-known Banking phrase and no political action is
> possible."..
>
> (Excerpted from Dr.Ambedkar's Published Work  RANADE, GANDHI AND
> JINNAH
>
> This was also an address delivered on the 101st Birthday Celebration
> of
> MAHADEO GOVIND RANADE
> held on the 18th January 1943 in
> the Gokhale Memorial Hall, Poona
> First Published: 1943 Reprinted from the first edition of 1943 )
>
>
>
> On Nov 11, 9:50 pm, "James Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > To be sure, the entire minority issue is turning out to be the greatest
> > problem in the country.
> > The country by definition belongs even to the Hindus (including the
> dalits),
> > but the rest of us have to either leave the country or face imminent
> deaths.
> > The recent malegaon blasts and the associate rhetoric suggests something
> > related to this.
> > I am really curious to know if Ambedkar has anything to offer for
> > minorities, or is he a figure completely apporiated/associated with the
> > dalit cause.
> > Do we have anything related to this in Ambedkar?
> > I am sure Gandhi has, and his standing legacy is coming to an end.
> > The people who killed him, are the ones behind the blasts.
> >
> > 2008/11/11 Venugopalan K M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > > *Journalistic Fascism*
> >
> > > *By Yoginder Sikand*
> >
> > > 10 November, 2008
> > > *Countercurrents.org*
> >
> > > *Ajit Sahi is an investigative reporter with the New Delhi-based
> Tehelka
> > > magazine. He recently published several startling reports clearly
> indicating
> > > that scores of innocent Muslims, including some former members or
> associates
> > > of the banned Students' Islamic Movement of India (SIMI), across the
> country
> > > have been falsely implicated by the police, intelligence agencies and
> the
> > > media as being behind various terror attacks. In this interview with
> > > Yoginder Sikand, he talks about how influential sections of the Indian
> media
> > > are playing a major role in demonizing Muslims today. *
> >
> > > *Q: You have been associated with the media for several years now. How
> do
> > > you see the way in which the so-called 'mainstream' Indian media
> responds to
> > > or projects Muslims and Islam, particularly in the context of the
> recent
> > > spate of bomb attacks, in which the media, despite the absence of
> evidence,
> > > has blamed Muslims and Muslim organizations for?*
> >
> > > A: I think the media does not want to recognize or admit it, but it
> sees
> > > these issues from basically a Hindu, or at least a non-Muslim, point of
> > > view. I tell my media friends that if they were Muslims they would not
> > > believe any of this media propaganda about Indian Muslims taking to
> > > terrorism, or at least would be greatly suspicious of these claims,
> because
> > > these claims are largely dubious and false. They typically answer is,
> 'No,
> > > we are secular, liberal and progressive. We are not communal'. But I do
> not
> > > agree, of course. I think the way they respond necessarily indicates
> that
> > > they are influenced by their not being Muslim. A hidden anti-Muslim
> bias
> > > pervades the media, although media persons who like to call themselves
> > > secular and liberal would hate to admit this. This is reflected, for
> > > instance, in the fact that in most cases of Muslims arrested on grounds
> of
> > > terrorism, all that we have are 'confessions' before the police, which
> are
> > > not admissible as evidence before courts, because obviously such
> > > 'confessions' are often false and procured after brutal torture. But
> the
> > > media simply projects these statements as supposed evidence, and then
> weaves
> > > this picture of Muslims as terrorists.
> >
> > > At the same time, there is a distinct lack of willingness in large
> sections
> > > of the media to recognize the very obvious and very deadly fact of
> terrorism
> > > being engaged in by people linked to the Hindutva camp. Thus, for
> instance,
> > > there is huge evidence against Narendra Modi of being responsible for
> the
> > > massacre of Muslims in 2002, and if it was somewhere else in the world
> Modi
> > > would have been tried as a criminal, and would probably have been
> sentenced
> > > to death or a hundred years in prison. (For the record, I am opposed to
> > > capital punishment.) I mean, he should be tried under international
> criminal
> > > law and charged with 'ethnic cleansing', but, of course, our supine,
> > > so-called 'mainstream' media is not demanding this. You really can't
> expect
> > > anything else from India's week-kneed so-called intellectuals. They do
> not
> > > have the guts to correctly describe Hindutva as it really is—as
> fascism, in
> > > the same league as Nazism.
> >
> > > *Q: How do you explain what you have referred to as the deep and
> pervasive
> > > anti-Muslim bias in large sections of the Indian media?*
> >
> > > A: One reason for this, of course, is that there are very few Muslims
> in
> > > the so-called 'mainstream' media, even in those newspapers, magazines
> and TV
> > > channels that see themselves as 'progressive' or 'liberal'. Now, some
> might
> > > say that this is because there are relatively very few well-educated or
> > > well-qualified Muslims, but I don't buy that argument. Surely, if you
> have a
> > > staff of a hundred people it should not be difficult to find twelve or
> > > fourteen educated Muslims to employ to reflect the proportion of
> Muslims in
> > > the Indian population. But I would be surprised if any of the so-called
> > > 'mainstream' papers have even half that proportion of Muslims among
> their
> > > staff.
> >
> > > The argument is also often made that ensuring a proper representation
> of
> > > the Muslims or the marginalized castes; the Dalits and the Adivasis, in
> the
> > > media would impact on the media's quality or merit. I think this cry
> about
> > > merit is the biggest hoax. After all, we all know that appointments in
> > > government services and even so often in the private sector are often
> not
> > > made on the basis of any sort of merit at all. Give me another story!
> I'd
> > > rather believe that the British are going to come back to rule India
> than
> > > swallow the claim that appointments are always made on the basis of
> merit.
> >
> > > In India, merit basically has come to stand for those who can speak and
> > > write in English. Many of these so-called 'meritorious' people in the
> media
> > > have come straight out of universities or have done some media course
> in
> > > some Western institute. They have little idea of the Indian society.
> Because
> > > they are the English-speaking, they rarely have an insider's connect
> with
> > > the community they report on. In fact, they take pride in that fact and
> in
> > > distancing themselves from 'ordinary' people. They think that not
> having
> > > anything to do with non-English-speaking Indians sets them in a
> position to
> > > comment on our society. I think this is really despicable and tragic.
> And
> > > they style themselves as 'liberal' and 'unprejudiced', and claim to be
> > > 'objective' about marginalized groups, about Muslims or Adivasis or
> Dalits,
> > > but actually have deep-rooted prejudices about them, which many of them
> do
> > > not even realize they have. These subconscious biases are often much
> more
> > > dangerous than consciously held prejudices.
> >
> > > Let me cite a personal instance. After I had published some reports in
> > > Tehelka exposing the lies of the media and the police about several
> innocent
> > > Muslims, some of who are said to have been associated with SIMI, and
> who had
> > > been wrongly branded as 'terrorists', the TV channel NDTV24x7 did a
> half
> > > hour programme on SIMI. They interviewed, among others, Praveen Swami,
> who
> > > works for the Hindu, and me. They used one sound bite of mine where I
> said
> > > that I had seen the judgments of the previous three tribunals on SIMI
> and
> > > had found them to be bad judgments, because they lacked evidence and
> had
> > > based their opinion on statements made by the accused before the
> police,
> > > which is not admissible as evidence in a court of law. After my sound
> bite,
> > > they showed Praveen Swami who justified the ban on SIMI saying
> something to
> > > the effect that terrorist outfits are not corporate organizations that
> hold
> > > board meetings and pass resolutions authorizing terror attacks, and so
> > > obviously would be careful not to leave any evidence. He also suggested
> that
> > > India should modify the law so that statements given to the police is
> > > accepted as evidence.
> >
> > > After the programme was broadcast, I sent an SMS to the producer who
> had
> > > recorded my interview. I drew her attention to Praveen Swami's
> long-standing
> > > record as virtually a spokesman for the Intelligence Bureau. I mean, I
> would
> > > not even call him a journalist. He is, at best, an agent of the state,
> > > simply parroting the statements of the police and the intelligence
> bureau.
> > > That's copying-and-pasting, not serious journalism. I also wrote this
> NDTV
> > > producer that she ought to be careful before advocating that
> confessions
> > > made to the police be accepted as evidence, for that would unleash
> mayhem in
> > > the country. After all, we all know how false statements are often
> forcibly
> > > procured by the police from innocent people after brutally torturing
> them.
> >
> > > This NDTV producer replied to me, saying that like all complex
> questions,
> > > this one, too, had two sides to it, and so she had used Praveen Swami's
> > > statement to counter my view. Now I fiercely respect her and my
> editorial
> > > independence, but talking about another side to a story about innocent
> > > people being wrongly targeted and branded as 'terrorists' would be like
> > > seeking to portray the 'other' side to the massacre of innocent people
> in
> > > Jallianwala Bagh by interviewing the man behind it, General Dyer.
> >
> > > Now, mind you, this is the case with a serious TV channel like
> NDTV24x7,
> > > not some irrational, jingoistic channel like India TV or Aj Tak or
> IBN7. And
> > > the programme was sending out subtle messages that clearly appeared to
> back
> > > Praveen Swami's position, with the voiceover commentary on terrorism
> being
> > > accompanied by images of madrasas, bearded men and burkha-clad women
> that
> > > seemed to aim at creating and reinforcing the image of Muslims as
> > > terrorists. Now, this is just one example of a huge number of such
> > > portrayals of Muslims in the media.
> >
> > > *Q: How do you think this sort of portrayal of Muslims in the media can
> be
> > > countered? *
> >
> > > A: The media is a reflection of the middle class of any country. It is
> the
> > > middle class that inhabits the media. So, unless the dominant views in
> a
> > > middle class change, the media cannot change substantially. People have
> to
> > > be sensitized to realities, but
> >
> > ...
> >
> > read more »
> >
>


-- 
James Michael

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Green Youth Movement" group.
 To post to this group, send email to [email protected]
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

Reply via email to