* Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [20060905 01:15]: > > problems start with multiple devices or devices with several > > partitions on it
> Or moving the USB device from PC to PC. That is the whole point of > using USB for many people. When you move the device, however, /dev/sda > becomes /dev/sdd so the old-style fstab syntax just breaks. ACK. > Mika is probably right about automount. His opinions are what make grml > so great. > On the other hand, *nix is a 30-year-old design. Not all of it is still > 100% right for today. The fstab topic deserves more comments. I have > opinions about fstab. > The /dev/XYZ syntax does not help. I much prefer labels/UUIDs. They > are *much* less brittle for OS design. It makes more sense to use > labels/UUIDs than to synchronize /dev/XYZ changes. A system based on > labels/UUIDs has nothing to sync. It "just works." It fails as soon as multiple devices have the same fs-label. [...] > The traditional /dev/XYZ syntax is just a sysadmin preference. It > should not be turned into a fixed rule. The rule being cemented now is > this: "grml will always use /dev/XYZ syntax no matter what you want, > but we offer some alternative /dev/ABC-XYZ syntax too." > The way to handle syadmin preferences is cheatcodes. A grml cheatcode > already toggles "build fstab." A new cheatcode could toggle "use labels > when building fstab" and "use UUIDs when building fstab." That way, > old-school sysadmins could keep /dev/XYZ (and risk the brittleness). People don't read the docs (ask my mailbox). I want to avoid the use of bootoptions as far as possible. > Duplicate label problems are solved by UUIDs. People worried about that > should use UUIDs. Incidentally, blkid gives the UUID. Yes, but UUIDs are long and IMO they suck a little bit on non-server-systems. > > Additionally we will create > > /dev/usb-sd* devices via udev rules like: > The philosophy of grml was to avoid "symlink hell." I'm ok with any > solution that is not better handled by fstab labels. "symlink hell" in regards to "init-stuff which has to be handled manually" (/etc/rc*.d). You don't have to take care of /dev/usb-sd* at all. All symlinks will be deleted automatically as soon as the devices aren't present anymore. Nothing to care about. > If the entire purpose is to avoid labels, then I do not like the > solution, because syntax is a poor reason to do anything. Besides, you > could still put /dev/XYZ in comment sections of the fstab file. > Swap partitions are even worse. There is no fine control. I'm not sure > how to handle them automatically in any Debian system very well. It's > all-or-nothing. Grml activates all swap partitions without regard to > fstab unless you boot with cheatcode "noswap" which turns them *all* > off. > You can do swapon by label. You can also boot noswap. So then, by > hand, you have full control: boot noswap and do swapon by label, one > swap at a time. This technique gives you full control over which > partitions are used. Yes. > Some of us like automation. Some of us *need* automation for end users. > It would be nice to have labels for this purpose in fstab. So, in > effect, the rule might be this: "only use a swap patition with these > UUIDs and no other swaps you detect." Usually you set up a swap partition because you want to *use* it. :) If you set up several swap partitions and want to use only a specific one I think you have to handle this in your own initscript. > These are my inputs: Consider the mobile USB case. Think about putting > /dev/XYZ in fstab comments (where they are still visible, but not > active). Ok. > Avoid symlink hell. As written above: don't care about stuff you don't have to manage on your own. :) > Think about using cheatcodes to implement sysadmin prefs. I'll talk about it with the other grmldevs on the next develmeeting. regards, -mika- -- http://grml.org/ # Linux for texttool-users and sysadmins http://wiki.grml.org/ # share your knowledge http://grml.supersized.org/ # the grml development weblog #grml @ irc.freenode.org # meet us on irc
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