Hi Matt, On 22/09/2017 07:08, Matt Griswold wrote: > * Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpen...@gmail.com> [170921 14:19 +1200]: >> On 21/09/2017 12:13, Matt Griswold wrote: >>> * Brian Carpenter <brian.e.carpen...@gmail.com> [170918 21:44 >>> -0700]: >>>> Minor Issues: >>>> ------------- >>>> >>>>> 3.1.1. Maintenance Considerations >>>>> >>>>> Initiators of the administrative shutdown could consider using >>>>> Graceful Shutdown [I-D.ietf-grow-bgp-gshut] to facilitate smooth >>>>> drainage of traffic prior to session tear down, and the Shutdown >>>>> Communication [I-D.ietf-idr-shutdown]... >>>> >>>> This strikes me as vague. "Could consider"? Surely if this is >>>> a BCP, they MUST use some mechanisms and perhaps SHOULD use these >>>> particular mechanisms. Otherwise the document doesn't specify >>>> anything much at all for this case. >>> >>> Graceful Shutdown is just one of multiple ways an Operator can >>> accomplish that. >> >> Understood, so perhaps it's a MAY not a SHOULD > > You're right, I will update it to MAY. > >> but the text still really only seems to say "do the right thing" >> without saying what that is. To be honest the whole document is a bit >> like that - written for members of the club who know how to run BGP, >> rather than for a newcomer who wants to know how to run BGP. > > That's really by design, the document is for people who know and run > BGP, I think putting too much basic BGP knowledge would make it > monotonous. Any ideas on how to meet in the middle?
Your suggestion below "Adding a brief scenario paragraph should work, I'll write something up." would do it, I think. (I should add that my perspective is that of someone who understands in theory how BGP is supposed to work but has never personally practiced it - I'm not suggesting you need to cover everything, just supply a few clues.) > >>>> Secondly, if there are no fault indications, what causes the >>>> Caretaker to cull sessions? What's the trigger? Is the Caretaker >>>> supposed to know by magic that layer 2 maintenance is planned? >>> >>> The Caretaker controls the layer 2 network, so yes, would do this as >>> part of the maintenance process. >> >> Again: not clear to a newcomer. > > The updated language is: > > Throughout this document the "Caretaker" is defined to be in control > of the lower layer network, while "Operators" directly administrate > the BGP speakers. > > I think that clears it up? Yes. > >>>> And in Appendix A, explain precisely how the example prefixes are >>>> used: what makes them relevant? Are they normally announced by BGP >>>> to all the IXP's BGP peers? >>> >>> They are the IXP LAN addresses, as explained above the examples. >> >> Yes, I realise that, but again you're assuming that the reader has >> a complete picture in her mind. Maybe there's actually a need for >> a scenario description in the Introduction, or at least a reminder >> that in normal operation, paths through the fabric in question may be >> known throughout the BGP realm, and the objective is to delete >> those paths before starting maintenance. > > Again, that section is for IXP Caretakers so I don't think we need to > go into IXP operational details too much. Adding a brief scenario > paragraph should work, I'll write something up. Great. Brian _______________________________________________ GROW mailing list GROW@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow