Hehe, thanks for these remarks, that's true, I'm more in arguing about some points that solving the problems myself.
After your answer, I will try to think more precisely to how to do this, but you're right, this might be a bit counter-intuitive, and I'm not very aware of the goal of GTG. It may not be a project manager, but more a everyday life task manager, right? However, I will consider this question again and if it's really necessary to implement this, the gains in terms of effectiveness and the loss of usability. Julien 2009/3/8 Lionel Dricot <[email protected]> > The problem is a very complex problem. > > When we started GTG, I had, like you, a very precise idea on how to > handle such cases. I was convinced that it was a good idea but really > hard to implement. > > I finally implemented it as a prototype : > https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~gtg/gtg/subtask_model<https://code.edge.launchpad.net/%7Egtg/gtg/subtask_model> > > And I discovered that it was unusable. Totally. A complete mess for the > user, counter-intuitive and non consistent. And I discovered that only > because I implemented it. > > So I'm now very suspicious about ideas like yours and I will do my old > fart on that subject but before coding anything related, I will ask > you : "show me your patch" or "show me your complete mockup with an user > workflow description". ;-) > > Don't get me wrong : it's a really interesting subject (really, it's the > heart of GTG) and I hope that our little growing community will solve > that problem but right now I don't believe that any of us as a solution > (or even the beginning of one). > > Lionel > > > Le dimanche 08 mars 2009 à 23:09 +0100, Julien Baley a écrit : > > "If I understood > > well, the problem comes from the fact that, at the moment, > > dependancies can only be described by creating subtasks of subtasks." > > > > That's it, exactly! > > > > However, I'm not sure numbered lists would be the best way to > > implement it. I'm not knowledgeable when it comes to task ordering > > (hmm, "ordannancement des tâches", sorry for the French, but as it may > > be better understood by you..), but I guess a task should have, as a > > "immediately possible" condition a list of other tasks + a date. > > Indeed, if the list of sub-tasks of a project becomes too big and the > > stream of sub-tasks get divided, numbers will be confusing (and > > impossible). As this may not be clear, a little example. > > I have a task A, that contains sub-tasks B, C and D. B and C can be > > done at anytime, but D requires B and C to be completed. In this > > situation, it would probably be better if D had a list of > > dependencies : [start_time, task_to_be_completed_before_1, ..., > > task_to_be_completed_before_n]. Here, we couldnt give the three tasks > > numbers (or we could give the same number to B and C, but it seems > > complicated, especially in case we introduce some new sub-tasks prior > > to B or C). > > > > Such a dependency list probably wouldn't be that difficult to > > implement (just a few tests to do, that already exist for the task / > > sub-task relation). In conclusion, it would be just like the current > > task / subtask scheme, but instead of a level approach (which is of > > course still necessary), there would be a same-level dependency > > mechanism. Hmm, this is of course just a suggestion, but if ever you > > like that idea, we can discuss it further, and if I find enough time > > these days to read a bit more the code of GTG, I could try and think > > of a solution locally. > > (any further idea, but that might seem a bit absurd : if date could be > > considered as an automatically done task, the mechanism of > > "immediately possible / impossible" task would only rely on the > > dependency scheme.) > > > > If any idea or suggestion, I'd gladly read it. I've started using the > > software tonight and I think it's going to be really useful for me > > (and it already is!), so if I could be of any help for improving its > > features, I'd gladly do it! > > > > Julien > > > > 2009/3/8 Bertrand Rousseau <[email protected]> > > On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Julien Baley > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > "What you want is, if I understand you correctly, the > > workview. By making > > > B a subtask of A, A will never be in the workview as long as > > B is not > > > completed. Personally, I'm nearly always in workview mode to > > have the > > > behaviour you described." > > > > > > Not particularly. In fact, I have understood I could use sub > > tasks, but in > > > terms of semantics, it sounds strange. > > > Imagine I want to make a cake. Let "make a cake" be the > > Task. > > > Then the sub-tasks : "buy the ingredients", "prepare the > > mix", "put in the > > > oven", "take out of the oven" (please don't procrastinate > > for this last > > > one!) should do in that order. However, it would be strange > > to list them as > > > "take out of the oven" be a sub task of level 1 and "put in > > the oven" be a > > > sub task of it (thus, of level 2). Though it works, it's not > > really > > > meaningful and rather disturbing in terms of organization. > > > I hope my example was understandable enough. But maybe there > > would be a > > > problem in dealing with dates and other task ID as a "start > > date" ? > > > > > > Hmm, we actually already discussed about this Lionel and me > > (remember > > Lionel? it's your "Replace the lightbulb" thing ;-) ). If I > > understood > > well, the problem comes from the fact that, at the moment, > > dependancies can only be described by creating subtasks of > > subtasks. > > > > GTG currently lacks the notion of order you talk about. We > > have to > > find a way to implement, since I think it is clearly required. > > We > > should be able to declare a list of tasks as being a sequence > > of > > actions. Maybe we could introduce two kind of lists: unordered > > (bullet > > point) lists and ordered (numbered) lists. Ordered lists would > > imply a > > dependance between tasks on the same level. > > > > > > > > > "Yep, Undo/redo should be nice but it's not an easy thing to > > do." > > > I guess it's not easy! If this ever comes to be on your > > agenda again soon, > > > I'd gladly give ideas about it! > > > > > > "Simply do : > > > bzr branch lp:gtg" > > > > > > Thanks! I will try to see how all this works (creating patch > > files, etc), > > > never used before. > > > > > > Julien > > > > > > 2009/3/8 Lionel Dricot <[email protected]> > > >> > > >> Le dimanche 08 mars 2009 à 19:34 +0100, Julien Baley a > > écrit : > > >> > Hi all, > > >> > > > >> > sorry if I'm not using properly this mailing list, but I > > had some > > >> > questions and suggestions about Getting Things Gnome! > > >> > > >> Hello Julien. You are on the perfect place to discuss GTG > > so welcome :-) > > >> > > > >> > First, I am wondering if it was possible to order some > > tasks. It looks > > >> > like I can use sub-tasks, or set a start date according > > to the > > >> > calendar, but I've found nothing to set a start date on > > another task's > > >> > "task done" flag, which seems to me to be rather > > important (especially > > >> > when slicing my "to do" tasks). Is there a way to do > > that, is it > > >> > planned, or is it a new idea? > > >> > > >> What you want is, if I understand you correctly, the > > workview. By making > > >> B a subtask of A, A will never be in the workview as long > > as B is not > > >> completed. Personally, I'm nearly always in workview mode > > to have the > > >> behaviour you described. > > >> > > >> > > > >> > Second, usability : it would be very nice if something > > like a cancel > > >> > button (+ shortcut ctrl + Z) could be added, wether it be > > in the text > > >> > area of a task / sub-task (oh no! I've deleted the text > > of a task and > > >> > cannot get it back, unfortunately) or for tasks > > themselves (though > > >> > there, it seems less important as a dialog asks if I > > really want to > > >> > delete the task). > > >> > > >> Yep, Undo/redo should be nice but it's not an easy thing to > > do. We > > >> planned it (Bertrand even added the icons) but we never did > > the > > >> implementation. It's also not really clear what undo should > > do. For the > > >> delete function, I think it's closely related to the > > following > > >> discussion : > > >> https://lists.launchpad.net/gtg-user/msg00004.html > > >> > > >> > > > >> > Finally, after a short look around, I couldnt find a > > tarball archive > > >> > of the project (as you seem to be looking for > > contributions), did I > > >> > miss it? > > >> > > >> Tarballs are linked here : > > >> http://gtg.fritalk.com/pages/download > > >> > > >> But if you plan to play with code, I strongly suggest you > > to use bzr. > > >> Simply do : > > >> > > >> bzr branch lp:gtg > > >> > > >> and you will have the full source. You can play with it, > > even commit > > >> your stuffs locally and if you developed something > > interesting, it's > > >> really easy to send your patch as a merge. Really, DVCS > > (and bzr) > > >> rocks ! :-) > > >> > > >> Lionel > > >> > > >> PS : note to everyone : don't forget to reply-all when > > replying to this > > >> list. > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Mailing list: > > https://launchpad.net/~gtg-user<https://launchpad.net/%7Egtg-user> > > >> Post to : [email protected] > > >> Unsubscribe : > > https://launchpad.net/~gtg-user<https://launchpad.net/%7Egtg-user> > > >> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Mailing list: > > https://launchpad.net/~gtg-user<https://launchpad.net/%7Egtg-user> > > > Post to : [email protected] > > > Unsubscribe : > > https://launchpad.net/~gtg-user<https://launchpad.net/%7Egtg-user> > > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Bertrand Rousseau > > Place communale 1, 1450 Chastre, Belgium > > e-mail : [email protected] > > tel : +32 485 96 69 86 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing list: > https://launchpad.net/~gtg-user<https://launchpad.net/%7Egtg-user> > Post to : [email protected] > Unsubscribe : > https://launchpad.net/~gtg-user<https://launchpad.net/%7Egtg-user> > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >
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