Hey there... I've been a "passive" member of the group for the past year or so. I sure appreciate the good info that has helped me enjoy 7,000 very enjoyable miles on my '93 GTS over the past eighteen months. Only problem is, we don't have enough curves on the west coast of Florida. Have found a few good roads though. On to my question. I know the subject of windscreens has come up before, but I can't find it in the archive. In Kevin's excellent comparison with the K1200, there was mention of the Euro sport screen for the GTS. Since I'm only 5'7" I'd love to have a lower (quieter) shield. Any idea where I can get one? Again, thanks to all for the great tips over the past year! Frank Countryman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Automatic digest processor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Recipients of GTS-1000 digests" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 6:15 PM Subject: GTS-1000 Digest - 28 May 2001 to 29 May 2001 - Special issue (#2001-163) > There are 18 messages totalling 1038 lines in this issue. > > Topics in this special issue: > > 1. GTS & K1200RS smackdown, verdict is...... (7) > 2. brake lever/brake lines > 3. Get your stainless brake lines here... (2) > 4. GTS & K1200RS smackdown, verdict is... > 5. Kevin peeked into the Dark Side, saw no Cary Fisher... > 6. cases (2) > 7. Chain info needed > 8. Shaft drive slop.... > 9. Oil and shafties...(watch it, SA's....).. (2) > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 10:12:00 -0400 > From: Kevin Hawkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: GTS & K1200RS smackdown, verdict is...... > > Not even close really.......GTS1000! > > Long analysis follows!! > > As you all know I've been thinking about replacing my beloved GTS1000 with > a K1200RS lately. We've had a new BMW dealership open right down the road > from where I work, so I've been kicking tires and bench racing with their > folks for a few weeks. I've always admired the looks of the K1200RS and > thought it might be the bike for me. This past weekend I had the > opportunity to ride a K12 and my GTS on a 3 day trip to Snow Shoe, WV. Here > are my conclusions: > > Engine: The K1200RS's inline four is awesome! Fabulous torque and good top > end too! A little more vibration than the GTS, but not a problem. The > GTS1000 is smoother and really doesn't give up much to the larger 1200. The > GTS has always had impressive 60-80 MPH roll-on numbers and it STILL > impresses me! Give the nod to the BMW, but both are fabulous engines! > > Drivetrain: It takes some time to get used to the single plate dry clutch > of the BMW. There also seems to be some driveline lash. Is that possible > with a shafty? All I can tell you is that going from engine braking, back > to throttle caused some lash. It wasn't too bad and could probably be > elliminated with more practice, but it was there. The Getrag 6 speed is > much better than the magazines give it credit. The GTS drivetrain is simply > better, smoother. Shifting requires less effort and the wet clutch > engagement is spot-on. > > Brakes: Forget about it! The GTS1000 is king! Not that the BMW's are bad. > In fact, they are excellent. But the front brake on the GTS is just > incredible! Both bikes offer ABS and both systems work well. > > Suspension: My friend's K12 was equipped with Ohlins front and rear and you > could tell. Very well sorted and VERY comfortable with the comfort seat! > The GTS felt harsh after riding the BMW. My bad! I had the rear set to MAX > preload and the front only one click from max. You see, I've gone from 193 > lbs. to 160 lbs. in the past 4 months and I've simply never readjusted the > suspension after my weight loss. After moving the preload down a few clicks > and softening the compression dampening, the GTS was MUCH better than > before. Personally, I prefer the RADD front suspension over the telelever. > It's hard to explain, but after 8 years on the GTS it just seems superior > in handling road imperfections. It's a magic carpet ride. > > Comfort: The GTS offers better protection from the elements. I had the > Yamaha Euro-only sport screen on the bike, so it wasn't like I was riding > behind a barn door, but the GTS does offer better wind protection. Setting > the windscreen on the K12 to it's higher position doesn't help things and > only creates buffeting. The comfort seat on the K12 is raised up a couple > inches from stock in order to give more leg room. This places the rider > higher on the bike than on the GTS. On the K12, I felt like a camel jockey. > With my Corbin seat and Heli bars I felt like I was ONE with the GTS! I was > seated into the bike and not on top! On both bikes though, I could ride all > day and come back for more! The heated hand grips on the K12 are "To Die > for"!! On a slightly cold day, they are a wonderful addition! Nod to the > GTS. > > Luggage: The K12 is superior! BMW simply offers the best and most > integrated hard bags in the industry. The GTS's are nice, don't get me > wrong! But the 47 L bags make it look like I'm being chased by an > elephant! My buddy Garrett was on this trip with his GTS and 34 L bags, > which are MUCH more attractive. Anyone want to trade?!?!?? Oh, please! > > Appearance: Let's face it, this plays a big part in our motorcycling > passion! I intentionally parked my GTS1000 next to the K12 every chance I > got to see which bike spoke to my heart! I've been goo-gooing over the K12 > for the past 4 weeks in pictures and on the showroom. Side by side, it's > amazing! The GTS, after 8 years, still looks more modern than any other > sport tourer on the market. It's beautiful, but that's a subjective > judgement isn't it? You may feel differently! Again, the nod goes to the > GTS! One reason for this is the incredible cosmetic and mechanical > condition that I keep my GTS. Remember the GTS that was displayed at the > Guggenheim museum? IT WAS DIRTY, compared to my GTS!! :^) > > Value: My GTS is worth about $6K right now, while a new K12 goes for > $16,800. The Mandarin/Grey K12 I was looking at retails at $17,300......but > I did get an incredible price of just $14,200 at a dealership 1 hr. away! > I'm not sure I could justify the ANY difference in price, much less $8K + > !! > > Intangibles: The K12 is a BMW. That, in itself offers a lot! It is an > excellently engineered motorcycle that offers wonderful performance and > immediate membership into a fanatical bunch of motorcyclist! If I were > buying today and the GTS was not available, the K12 would be MY BIKE!! I'm > sure I could customize it to eliminate some of the dislikes listed above > and my riding style would soon adapt to what it offers. The GTS is ageless > and unique! It is STILL the main draw in ANY parking lot where a bunch of > motorcycles have gathered. I guess that's what happens when Yamaha built a > bike that was years ahead of it's time. > > Conclusion: There are many aspects of sport touring and each of us places > different emphasis on those areas. For me, and I repeat "FOR ME", the GTS > offers the perfect blend. The ST1100 offers more tour. The K12 offers more > sport. The GTS offers a perfect blend that matches my personal riding style > and it better executes more aspects of sport touring than the other bikes > I've ridden. That being said, I'm still a motoslut! I simply like to ride > and experience different motorcycles! Hell, I always enjoyed riding my > wife's old '80 CM400T!! A K12 might still be in my future, but probably not > soon. 2002 should be an exciting year for sport touring if Kawasaki > produces it's new 1200 based sport tourer and Yamaha brings in the FJR1300! > Be still my heart........ > > Kevin Hawkins // Greensboro, NC > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.livin4.com/raddboy/ > Y2K Kawasaki ZRX1100 //'93 Yamaha GTS1000 //'85 FZ750 > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 10:06:57 -0400 > From: "Burton, Bob" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: brake lever/brake lines > > Well, I have to ask, so if this is required maintenance then why do Yamaha > dealers not replace the brake lines as required maintenance every two years > if they are the only ones that service your bike? Also if you had the ABS HU > replaced under warranty or Y.E.S. plan, why weren't new brake lines required > then? I bet if you check on most bikes they also say brake lines should be > replaced at some regular interval, but have you ever seen a shop that does > all your maintenance actually do it? If like most shops I've experienced, if > you don't have a problem, they just do the basics and unless you specify it, > that probably doesn't mean replace the brake lines even though the service > manual calls for it. Best advise is bleed the brakes and change out the > fluid every 6 months or more, even if you get new brake lines. Also make > sure to run the ABS test as part of the flushing the brake line procedure. > Bob B. > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 11:42 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: GTS FRONT BRAKE LEVER TRAVEL > > BTW, have you replaced your brake lines according to your service manual? > Service intervals calls for replacement of your brake hoses every two years. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 07:12:47 -0700 > From: Dave Biasotti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: Get your stainless brake lines here... > > one line loops around from the top to the bottom of the pump, so yes > there are four connections. > The other two end in flare fittings to hard lines that go to the front > and back brakes. > -- > Dave Biasotti // Fremont, CA > > > > > > Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 16:30:31 EDT > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: Get your stainless brake lines here... > > > > In a message dated 5/28/01 1:41:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > << There are 3 lines to the ABS pump. >> > > hmmmmm, I remember two in and two out....... one of each for each end. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 08:58:52 -0600 > From: grant gall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: GTS & K1200RS smackdown, verdict is... > > Congrats on deciding to choose the GTS. As much as I did not want to > have you leave the list, I believe people do things for their own > reasons. > > You tested and you decided. > > The GTS is a great bike. Only the smart people actually have one! > > My .02. > > Grant Gall > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 09:31:07 -0600 > From: Phil Benson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: GTS & K1200RS smackdown, verdict is...... > > OK, Kevin, I agree with most of your analysis. But you left off one of > the best reasons to have the GTS....it makes you a member of this list! > > OK, we'd let you subscribe without bike ownership....this isn't a HOG > chapter or anything....but heck, outside of a few SA's this list is great! > > SA #???? ....... still don't have a formal number..... > > Phil > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 11:42:45 -0400 > From: "Crisler, Jon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Kevin peeked into the Dark Side, saw no Cary Fisher... > > "Luke, I am your father !!" said BMW Vader > > "You will never be my father !!!" said GTS Skywalker > > (then GTS Skywalker drops into the depths of the evil Finance and Insurance > guy at the BMW dealership) > > > > Jon "very bad Star Wars analogies" Crisler > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 20:11:36 +0200 > From: Michel Bijl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: cases > > Folks, > > I've bought the cases, they look great. This week the rack will arrive and > I'll be a busy little boy in the garage, mounting the rack. > 2 36 liter cases and 1 45 liter case. It's huge. > > Also I have the rear tire geschuurd (sanded down for those who don't > understand dutch ((joke)) but it doesn't really seem to work too well. The > bike is still not very stable in the fast left turns. Should i be worried > already or should I slow down? > > Michel Bijl > > AX trainingen > Kavelsloot 7 > 1602 HG Enkhuizen > tel/fax +31228318552 > mobiel +31651167711 > e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 14:17:26 -0400 > From: "Crisler, Jon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: cases > > Did you double check your chain/rear axle alignment ? Has the tire been > properly installed ? Sometimes the bead of the tire can bind up slightly, > even though it holds air. This is pretty rare thing to happen though.... > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michel Bijl [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 2:12 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: cases > > > Folks, > > I've bought the cases, they look great. This week the rack will arrive and > I'll be a busy little boy in the garage, mounting the rack. > 2 36 liter cases and 1 45 liter case. It's huge. > > Also I have the rear tire geschuurd (sanded down for those who don't > understand dutch ((joke)) but it doesn't really seem to work too well. The > bike is still not very stable in the fast left turns. Should i be worried > already or should I slow down? > > Michel Bijl > > AX trainingen > Kavelsloot 7 > 1602 HG Enkhuizen > tel/fax +31228318552 > mobiel +31651167711 > e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 14:23:34 -0400 > From: Mark Bergman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: Get your stainless brake lines here... > > In your message dated: Mon, 28 May 2001 19:36:07 EDT, > The pithy ruminations from Hugh Hamilton on > <Re: Get your stainless brake lines here...> were: > => Ralph's kit includes lines to and from the ABS pump. > => It has four connections... Front in and out - Rear in and out > => > => It is a complete replacement for the ABS equipped GTS. > => Everything is cut to the correct lengths and the banjos with the > => correct angles are fitted. It includes a schematic indicating which > => hose goes where. > => I have the damn thing sitting in front of me :) > => Just order it! > > Does the kit include a line from the rear brake reservoir to the rear master > cylinder? > > Mark > > > Mark Bergman Biker, IATSE #1 Stagehand, Rock Climber, Unix mechanic > '94 Yamaha GTS1000A > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > I want a newsgroup with a infinite S/N ratio! Now taking CFV on: > rec.motorcycles.stagehands.pet-bird-owners.pinballers.unix-supporters > 5+ So Far--Want to join? Check out: http://www.panix.com/~bergman > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 16:31:45 -0400 > From: "Loss, Joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: GTS & K1200RS smackdown, verdict is...... > > Good decision Kevin...I must admit I've been tempted by the K12RS myself...I > think some other considerations you didn't mention are: > > The BMWs slick (maintenance free? and clean) shaft drive. > The BMWs silly smallish exhaust side pannier. > The GTSs silly oil consumption at high speed. > The BMWs better maintenance access. > > What was your opinion on the comparable: > > Fuel injection operation? > Steering? (the BMW wheelbase is over 60 inches) > Neutral to 1st gear clunk? > Wind buffeting/noise behind the fairing? > Both weigh about the same. Which carries the weight best? > > The pricing difference is not that significant IMO considering you are > comparing a brand new bike to a 8 year old bike with considerable miles. > > Cheers Joe. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kevin Hawkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 8:12 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: GTS & K1200RS smackdown, verdict is...... > > > Not even close really.......GTS1000! > > Long analysis follows!! > > As you all know I've been thinking about replacing my beloved GTS1000 with > a K1200RS lately. We've had a new BMW dealership open right down the road > from where I work, so I've been kicking tires and bench racing with their > folks for a few weeks. I've always admired the looks of the K1200RS and > thought it might be the bike for me. This past weekend I had the > opportunity to ride a K12 and my GTS on a 3 day trip to Snow Shoe, WV. Here > are my conclusions: > > Engine: The K1200RS's inline four is awesome! Fabulous torque and good top > end too! A little more vibration than the GTS, but not a problem. The > GTS1000 is smoother and really doesn't give up much to the larger 1200. The > GTS has always had impressive 60-80 MPH roll-on numbers and it STILL > impresses me! Give the nod to the BMW, but both are fabulous engines! > > Drivetrain: It takes some time to get used to the single plate dry clutch > of the BMW. There also seems to be some driveline lash. Is that possible > with a shafty? All I can tell you is that going from engine braking, back > to throttle caused some lash. It wasn't too bad and could probably be > elliminated with more practice, but it was there. The Getrag 6 speed is > much better than the magazines give it credit. The GTS drivetrain is simply > better, smoother. Shifting requires less effort and the wet clutch > engagement is spot-on. > > Brakes: Forget about it! The GTS1000 is king! Not that the BMW's are bad. > In fact, they are excellent. But the front brake on the GTS is just > incredible! Both bikes offer ABS and both systems work well. > > Suspension: My friend's K12 was equipped with Ohlins front and rear and you > could tell. Very well sorted and VERY comfortable with the comfort seat! > The GTS felt harsh after riding the BMW. My bad! I had the rear set to MAX > preload and the front only one click from max. You see, I've gone from 193 > lbs. to 160 lbs. in the past 4 months and I've simply never readjusted the > suspension after my weight loss. After moving the preload down a few clicks > and softening the compression dampening, the GTS was MUCH better than > before. Personally, I prefer the RADD front suspension over the telelever. > It's hard to explain, but after 8 years on the GTS it just seems superior > in handling road imperfections. It's a magic carpet ride. > > Comfort: The GTS offers better protection from the elements. I had the > Yamaha Euro-only sport screen on the bike, so it wasn't like I was riding > behind a barn door, but the GTS does offer better wind protection. Setting > the windscreen on the K12 to it's higher position doesn't help things and > only creates buffeting. The comfort seat on the K12 is raised up a couple > inches from stock in order to give more leg room. This places the rider > higher on the bike than on the GTS. On the K12, I felt like a camel jockey. > With my Corbin seat and Heli bars I felt like I was ONE with the GTS! I was > seated into the bike and not on top! On both bikes though, I could ride all > day and come back for more! The heated hand grips on the K12 are "To Die > for"!! On a slightly cold day, they are a wonderful addition! Nod to the > GTS. > > Luggage: The K12 is superior! BMW simply offers the best and most > integrated hard bags in the industry. The GTS's are nice, don't get me > wrong! But the 47 L bags make it look like I'm being chased by an > elephant! My buddy Garrett was on this trip with his GTS and 34 L bags, > which are MUCH more attractive. Anyone want to trade?!?!?? Oh, please! > > Appearance: Let's face it, this plays a big part in our motorcycling > passion! I intentionally parked my GTS1000 next to the K12 every chance I > got to see which bike spoke to my heart! I've been goo-gooing over the K12 > for the past 4 weeks in pictures and on the showroom. Side by side, it's > amazing! The GTS, after 8 years, still looks more modern than any other > sport tourer on the market. It's beautiful, but that's a subjective > judgement isn't it? You may feel differently! Again, the nod goes to the > GTS! One reason for this is the incredible cosmetic and mechanical > condition that I keep my GTS. Remember the GTS that was displayed at the > Guggenheim museum? IT WAS DIRTY, compared to my GTS!! :^) > > Value: My GTS is worth about $6K right now, while a new K12 goes for > $16,800. The Mandarin/Grey K12 I was looking at retails at $17,300......but > I did get an incredible price of just $14,200 at a dealership 1 hr. away! > I'm not sure I could justify the ANY difference in price, much less $8K + > !! > > Intangibles: The K12 is a BMW. That, in itself offers a lot! It is an > excellently engineered motorcycle that offers wonderful performance and > immediate membership into a fanatical bunch of motorcyclist! If I were > buying today and the GTS was not available, the K12 would be MY BIKE!! I'm > sure I could customize it to eliminate some of the dislikes listed above > and my riding style would soon adapt to what it offers. The GTS is ageless > and unique! It is STILL the main draw in ANY parking lot where a bunch of > motorcycles have gathered. I guess that's what happens when Yamaha built a > bike that was years ahead of it's time. > > Conclusion: There are many aspects of sport touring and each of us places > different emphasis on those areas. For me, and I repeat "FOR ME", the GTS > offers the perfect blend. The ST1100 offers more tour. The K12 offers more > sport. The GTS offers a perfect blend that matches my personal riding style > and it better executes more aspects of sport touring than the other bikes > I've ridden. That being said, I'm still a motoslut! I simply like to ride > and experience different motorcycles! Hell, I always enjoyed riding my > wife's old '80 CM400T!! A K12 might still be in my future, but probably not > soon. 2002 should be an exciting year for sport touring if Kawasaki > produces it's new 1200 based sport tourer and Yamaha brings in the FJR1300! > Be still my heart........ > > Kevin Hawkins // Greensboro, NC > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.livin4.com/raddboy/ > Y2K Kawasaki ZRX1100 //'93 Yamaha GTS1000 //'85 FZ750 > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 21:35:59 +0100 > From: Barry Edwards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: GTS & K1200RS smackdown, verdict is...... > > Kevin > > Very revealing observations. As one who is actively seeking a GTS at the > moment, you're confirming the sentiments I wanted to hear. > > The FJR is easily available here now in the UK. However there are some > serious misgivings. Firstly, the pillion seating position is poor. The > upswept exhausts mean that the pillion footrests are too high and rearward > to be comfortable for anyone more that 5'6" max. The pillion's legs being > bent back quite sharply. My wife is 5'9" and wouldn't entertain it. BTW, > none of the footrest mountings are rubber, they all bolt directly to the > frame ! > > Secondly, there are some serious vibration issues coming from those early > owners. The Yahoo FJR Club > ( http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/yamahafjr1300club ) yes I know I started it > :>( , has already posts from owners complaining of vibration and are > resorting to 'Harley' techniques to quell the vibe ! > > These are serious failing in my view and started me looking and arriving > thus far at the GTS. > > I wanted to like the FJR, I wanted to own one. I believe somewhere along the > line it is slightly misdirected, perhaps wanting to cover the 'sports' in > 'sports tourer' too much. > > No I'll keep my FJ1200 and the Thunderace and continue looking for a GTS I > think ! > > > > Barry Edwards > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kevin Hawkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 3:12 PM > Subject: GTS & K1200RS smackdown, verdict is...... > > > > Not even close really.......GTS1000! > > > > Long analysis follows!! > > > > As you all know I've been thinking about replacing my beloved GTS1000 with > > a K1200RS lately. We've had a new BMW dealership open right down the road > > from where I work, so I've been kicking tires and bench racing with their > > folks for a few weeks. I've always admired the looks of the K1200RS and > > thought it might be the bike for me. This past weekend I had the > > opportunity to ride a K12 and my GTS on a 3 day trip to Snow Shoe, WV. > Here > > are my conclusions: > > > > Engine: The K1200RS's inline four is awesome! Fabulous torque and good top > > end too! A little more vibration than the GTS, but not a problem. The > > GTS1000 is smoother and really doesn't give up much to the larger 1200. > The > > GTS has always had impressive 60-80 MPH roll-on numbers and it STILL > > impresses me! Give the nod to the BMW, but both are fabulous engines! > > > > Drivetrain: It takes some time to get used to the single plate dry clutch > > of the BMW. There also seems to be some driveline lash. Is that possible > > with a shafty? All I can tell you is that going from engine braking, back > > to throttle caused some lash. It wasn't too bad and could probably be > > elliminated with more practice, but it was there. The Getrag 6 speed is > > much better than the magazines give it credit. The GTS drivetrain is > simply > > better, smoother. Shifting requires less effort and the wet clutch > > engagement is spot-on. > > > > Brakes: Forget about it! The GTS1000 is king! Not that the BMW's are bad. > > In fact, they are excellent. But the front brake on the GTS is just > > incredible! Both bikes offer ABS and both systems work well. > > > > Suspension: My friend's K12 was equipped with Ohlins front and rear and > you > > could tell. Very well sorted and VERY comfortable with the comfort seat! > > The GTS felt harsh after riding the BMW. My bad! I had the rear set to MAX > > preload and the front only one click from max. You see, I've gone from 193 > > lbs. to 160 lbs. in the past 4 months and I've simply never readjusted the > > suspension after my weight loss. After moving the preload down a few > clicks > > and softening the compression dampening, the GTS was MUCH better than > > before. Personally, I prefer the RADD front suspension over the telelever. > > It's hard to explain, but after 8 years on the GTS it just seems superior > > in handling road imperfections. It's a magic carpet ride. > > > > Comfort: The GTS offers better protection from the elements. I had the > > Yamaha Euro-only sport screen on the bike, so it wasn't like I was riding > > behind a barn door, but the GTS does offer better wind protection. Setting > > the windscreen on the K12 to it's higher position doesn't help things and > > only creates buffeting. The comfort seat on the K12 is raised up a couple > > inches from stock in order to give more leg room. This places the rider > > higher on the bike than on the GTS. On the K12, I felt like a camel > jockey. > > With my Corbin seat and Heli bars I felt like I was ONE with the GTS! I > was > > seated into the bike and not on top! On both bikes though, I could ride > all > > day and come back for more! The heated hand grips on the K12 are "To Die > > for"!! On a slightly cold day, they are a wonderful addition! Nod to the > > GTS. > > > > Luggage: The K12 is superior! BMW simply offers the best and most > > integrated hard bags in the industry. The GTS's are nice, don't get me > > wrong! But the 47 L bags make it look like I'm being chased by an > > elephant! My buddy Garrett was on this trip with his GTS and 34 L bags, > > which are MUCH more attractive. Anyone want to trade?!?!?? Oh, please! > > > > Appearance: Let's face it, this plays a big part in our motorcycling > > passion! I intentionally parked my GTS1000 next to the K12 every chance I > > got to see which bike spoke to my heart! I've been goo-gooing over the K12 > > for the past 4 weeks in pictures and on the showroom. Side by side, it's > > amazing! The GTS, after 8 years, still looks more modern than any other > > sport tourer on the market. It's beautiful, but that's a subjective > > judgement isn't it? You may feel differently! Again, the nod goes to the > > GTS! One reason for this is the incredible cosmetic and mechanical > > condition that I keep my GTS. Remember the GTS that was displayed at the > > Guggenheim museum? IT WAS DIRTY, compared to my GTS!! :^) > > > > Value: My GTS is worth about $6K right now, while a new K12 goes for > > $16,800. The Mandarin/Grey K12 I was looking at retails at > $17,300......but > > I did get an incredible price of just $14,200 at a dealership 1 hr. away! > > I'm not sure I could justify the ANY difference in price, much less $8K + > > !! > > > > Intangibles: The K12 is a BMW. That, in itself offers a lot! It is an > > excellently engineered motorcycle that offers wonderful performance and > > immediate membership into a fanatical bunch of motorcyclist! If I were > > buying today and the GTS was not available, the K12 would be MY BIKE!! I'm > > sure I could customize it to eliminate some of the dislikes listed above > > and my riding style would soon adapt to what it offers. The GTS is ageless > > and unique! It is STILL the main draw in ANY parking lot where a bunch of > > motorcycles have gathered. I guess that's what happens when Yamaha built a > > bike that was years ahead of it's time. > > > > Conclusion: There are many aspects of sport touring and each of us places > > different emphasis on those areas. For me, and I repeat "FOR ME", the GTS > > offers the perfect blend. The ST1100 offers more tour. The K12 offers more > > sport. The GTS offers a perfect blend that matches my personal riding > style > > and it better executes more aspects of sport touring than the other bikes > > I've ridden. That being said, I'm still a motoslut! I simply like to ride > > and experience different motorcycles! Hell, I always enjoyed riding my > > wife's old '80 CM400T!! A K12 might still be in my future, but probably > not > > soon. 2002 should be an exciting year for sport touring if Kawasaki > > produces it's new 1200 based sport tourer and Yamaha brings in the > FJR1300! > > Be still my heart........ > > > > Kevin Hawkins // Greensboro, NC > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://www.livin4.com/raddboy/ > > Y2K Kawasaki ZRX1100 file://'93 Yamaha GTS1000 file://'85 FZ750 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 16:53:51 -0400 > From: Mark Bergman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: GTS & K1200RS smackdown, verdict is...... > > In your message dated: Tue, 29 May 2001 16:31:45 EDT, > The pithy ruminations from "Loss, Joe" on > <Re: GTS & K1200RS smackdown, verdict is......> were: > => Good decision Kevin...I must admit I've been tempted by the K12RS myself...I > => think some other considerations you didn't mention are: > => > => The BMWs slick (maintenance free? and clean) shaft drive. > => The BMWs silly smallish exhaust side pannier. > => The GTSs silly oil consumption at high speed. > => The BMWs better maintenance access. > => > > Here's another consideration... > > BMW North America's terrible customer service. > > I had an R1100RSA before I got the GTS. My bike (purchased new) was a lemon (4 > clutches, 3 transmissions, one final drive unit, 3 (or 4) blown head gaskets, > blown out oil sight glass, cracked rear sub-frame, defective front shock, 2 > engines, ~10 1/2 months in the shop in 3 years). I understand that lemons can > happen. I understand that I purchased a very early model. I cannot accept the > insulting, rude, and arrogant treatment I repeatedly received from BMW NA's > national customer service representative. The dealers were all quite helpful, > some of them really went out of their way to intercede with BMW NA on my behalf, > but the attitude problem was with the (US) parent company. I was not alone in > experiencing this kind of behavior from BMW NA. If they had done the right thing > at any number of different places, I'd be riding a BMW today. > > Contact me off the list if you want more details. > > Mark Bergman > > Mark Bergman Biker, IATSE #1 Stagehand, Rock Climber, Unix mechanic > '94 Yamaha GTS1000A > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > I want a newsgroup with a infinite S/N ratio! Now taking CFV on: > rec.motorcycles.stagehands.pet-bird-owners.pinballers.unix-supporters > 5+ So Far--Want to join? Check out: http://www.panix.com/~bergman > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 16:58:14 -0400 > From: Kevin Hawkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: GTS & K1200RS smackdown, verdict is...... > > Let's see.... > > I always thought it would be nice to have a shaftdrive, but with my > ScottOiler that advantage is certainly minimized. Factor in the > complexities and "possible" maintenance cost (remember the spline problems > they had a while back) and the chain is actually a bit more desirable in my > mind. > Yep, the smaller hard bag on the left side is another BMWism. Although, the > bags are still more attractive than anything available on the GTS. > My GTS is oil tight! Seriously! At 60K miles this engine is only getting > better! It did consume some oil in it's earlier years, but the rings seem > to be seated very nicely now. Compression is actually on the higher end of > the acceptible range and it is consistent across all four cylinders. Did > you see the most recent Downtime files in Motorcycle Consumer News? A K12 > owner was complaing about excessive oil consumption. In fact, of the > research I've done reveals this problem to be MORE prominent in K-bikes > that our GTSs. > I'm not sure what maintenance access your thinking of Joe. Everyone on the > I-BMW list seems to begrudge the fact that they have to remove the gas tank > for a simple air filter replacement or remove the fairings for other simple > access. > > Both fuel injections seem to work VERY well. The GTS, of course, displays a > cold, off-idle surge but this goes away after warm up. Both setups run like > scalded frikkin dogs! :^) > Steering was almost identical for these bikes! Both have long legs and love > to run through long sweepers at high speeds. Quick switchbacks require > skill, but are not difficult to perform. > Wind buffeting on my sport screen is NOT a problem. It's wonderful! The > K1200RS was acceptible too until you raised the adjustable screen to it's > upright position. > Yes, their weights were comparable and both carried it with equal grace > once underway. Very slow speed maneuvers require your full attention. :^) > Yeah, I guess the price differential is to be expected. It wasn't a > deciding factor anyway. > > Kevin Hawkins // Greensboro, NC > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.livin4.com/raddboy > Y2K Kawasaki ZRX1100 //'93 Yamaha GTS1000 //'85 FZ750 > > > > > Good decision Kevin...I must admit I've been tempted by the K12RS > myself...I > think some other considerations you didn't mention are: > > The BMWs slick (maintenance free? and clean) shaft drive. > The BMWs silly smallish exhaust side pannier. > The GTSs silly oil consumption at high speed. > The BMWs better maintenance access. > > What was your opinion on the comparable: > > Fuel injection operation? > Steering? (the BMW wheelbase is over 60 inches) > Neutral to 1st gear clunk? > Wind buffeting/noise behind the fairing? > Both weigh about the same. Which carries the weight best? > > The pricing difference is not that significant IMO considering you are > comparing a brand new bike to a 8 year old bike with considerable miles. > > Cheers Joe. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 14:02:59 -0700 > From: "Boman, Jeff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: Chain info needed > > I purchased the RK brand over the DID and have been very pleased. > The best prices I could find were at: http://www.accwhse.com/rk.htm#Chains > Of course the #530s are a heck of a lot cheaper than the speciality #532 > that Yamaha saddled us with on the GTS, and a couple other models. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 2:56 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Chain info needed > > > Hey all, > > I need to replace my chain and sprokets, and I was hoping to order them > shortly. However, I am away from home and unable to get to the info I > need. Would a kind soul share with me: > > Number or teeth on the front sproket > Number of teeth on the rear sproket > Number of links in the chain. > > I did the 530 conversion last time. > > Any brand of the above y'all like? > > Thanks, > Mike > > > > -- > Michael Weaver (706)542-6462 [EMAIL PROTECTED] > UCNS Network Specialist LAN Support Group > University of Georgia, Athens Ga. )O( > Public PGP key: http://www.arches.uga.edu/~weaver/pgp.html > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 17:22:55 -0400 > From: "Crisler, Jon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Shaft drive slop.... > > Kevin, I have had two shaft drive bikes (Yamahas) and ridden a Vmax, V65 > Sabre, V45 Magna, maybe a few others. Most seemed to exhibit more drive > train play than chain bikes. Shafts have a few disadvantages: > > 1) Cost > 2) slack in drive train > 3) rear-end tends to raise up under hard accel > 4) weight (shaft adds a few pounds over chain) > 5) Slightly reduced gas milage and HP (typically a shaft wastes about 1 hp) > > > If you have ever had a bike that tended to shudder when cold, a shaft makes > it twice as bad. My Yahama Vision (first street bike) was really bad about > that, so was the V65 Sabre. > > > Obviously, you know the pros: > 1) reduced maintenance > 2) more quiet/less noise. > Shafts tend to never wear out unless the oil is really neglected. If > that happens, the repair cost is quite high, and makes a chain look really > cheap in comparision. Figure at least $800 in parts unless you do the work > yourself and get used parts. I helped a friend do this to a well abused > Honda V45 Magna. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 14:31:46 -0700 > From: "Loss, Joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: GTS & K1200RS smackdown, verdict is...... > > Thanks Kevin...I was thinking about access to sparkplugs, valves, injectors > more than anything. I believe you can access bottom end and pistons without > removing the engine too. My GTS drinks oil when sitting at 80+ mph. Sounds > like you must be one of the lucky few. > > Cheers Joe. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kevin Hawkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 2:58 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: GTS & K1200RS smackdown, verdict is...... > > > Let's see.... > > I always thought it would be nice to have a shaftdrive, but with my > ScottOiler that advantage is certainly minimized. Factor in the > complexities and "possible" maintenance cost (remember the spline problems > they had a while back) and the chain is actually a bit more desirable in my > mind. > Yep, the smaller hard bag on the left side is another BMWism. Although, the > bags are still more attractive than anything available on the GTS. > My GTS is oil tight! Seriously! At 60K miles this engine is only getting > better! It did consume some oil in it's earlier years, but the rings seem > to be seated very nicely now. Compression is actually on the higher end of > the acceptible range and it is consistent across all four cylinders. Did > you see the most recent Downtime files in Motorcycle Consumer News? A K12 > owner was complaing about excessive oil consumption. In fact, of the > research I've done reveals this problem to be MORE prominent in K-bikes > that our GTSs. > I'm not sure what maintenance access your thinking of Joe. Everyone on the > I-BMW list seems to begrudge the fact that they have to remove the gas tank > for a simple air filter replacement or remove the fairings for other simple > access. > > Both fuel injections seem to work VERY well. The GTS, of course, displays a > cold, off-idle surge but this goes away after warm up. Both setups run like > scalded frikkin dogs! :^) > Steering was almost identical for these bikes! Both have long legs and love > to run through long sweepers at high speeds. Quick switchbacks require > skill, but are not difficult to perform. > Wind buffeting on my sport screen is NOT a problem. It's wonderful! The > K1200RS was acceptible too until you raised the adjustable screen to it's > upright position. > Yes, their weights were comparable and both carried it with equal grace > once underway. Very slow speed maneuvers require your full attention. :^) > Yeah, I guess the price differential is to be expected. It wasn't a > deciding factor anyway. > > Kevin Hawkins // Greensboro, NC > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.livin4.com/raddboy > Y2K Kawasaki ZRX1100 //'93 Yamaha GTS1000 //'85 FZ750 > > > > > Good decision Kevin...I must admit I've been tempted by the K12RS > myself...I > think some other considerations you didn't mention are: > > The BMWs slick (maintenance free? and clean) shaft drive. > The BMWs silly smallish exhaust side pannier. > The GTSs silly oil consumption at high speed. > The BMWs better maintenance access. > > What was your opinion on the comparable: > > Fuel injection operation? > Steering? (the BMW wheelbase is over 60 inches) > Neutral to 1st gear clunk? > Wind buffeting/noise behind the fairing? > Both weigh about the same. Which carries the weight best? > > The pricing difference is not that significant IMO considering you are > comparing a brand new bike to a 8 year old bike with considerable miles. > > Cheers Joe. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 16:08:53 -0600 > From: Brandon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Oil and shafties...(watch it, SA's....).. > > Joe wrote: > > > ..... My GTS drinks oil when sitting at 80+ mph. <snip> > > True. Mostly. This thread has come up before but on my recent trip to > the Redwoods, it has proven to be true again. If I did not go over 80 > mph +/-, the bike consumed NO oil whatsoever. I checked it at various > times. However, on the trip in, we averaged 80 to 90 mph and consumed > about a pint in nearly 700 miles. > > While I'm not sure of the 'official' reason on this, it is my > understanding that the engine consumes oil in the attempt to 'protect' > all the operating parts, particulary the top end. (Valves, > rings...etc...) > > IMO, I think that this is somewhat reasonable and if it saves the engine > from excess wear, not a major pita. I have gone an entire oil change, > 3000 miles, and not used a drop of oil. Because I never went over the > consumption speed. > > And yes, I have owned bikes in the past that consumed NO oil regardless > of speed, and it was nice. But again, I don't consider, IMO, it to be a > real problem or pain. But that's just MY opinion. :^) > > And....as long as we are at it....I would gladly trade a few hp and a > little drivetrain 'slop' to have a shaft drive on the GTS. It makes > plenty of power for me and I don't think the hp difference would really > be missed. And it would be clean....and quiet... ahh........ > > Brandon (With his last 2 cents leftover from his trip....) :^) > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 23:13:48 +0100 > From: Barry Edwards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: Oil and shafties...(watch it, SA's....).. > > Owning a Thunderace (YZF1000R) and subscribing to the Thunderace list, this > is a topic that has come up time and time again. Guess what is the most > popular solution ? > > "Fit GTS rings" > > Ironic eh ! > > > Barry Edwards > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Brandon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 11:08 PM > Subject: Oil and shafties...(watch it, SA's....).. > > > > Joe wrote: > > > > > ..... My GTS drinks oil when sitting at 80+ mph. <snip> > > > > True. Mostly. This thread has come up before but on my recent trip to > > the Redwoods, it has proven to be true again. If I did not go over 80 > > mph +/-, the bike consumed NO oil whatsoever. I checked it at various > > times. However, on the trip in, we averaged 80 to 90 mph and consumed > > about a pint in nearly 700 miles. > > > > While I'm not sure of the 'official' reason on this, it is my > > understanding that the engine consumes oil in the attempt to 'protect' > > all the operating parts, particulary the top end. (Valves, > > rings...etc...) > > > > IMO, I think that this is somewhat reasonable and if it saves the engine > > from excess wear, not a major pita. I have gone an entire oil change, > > 3000 miles, and not used a drop of oil. Because I never went over the > > consumption speed. > > > > And yes, I have owned bikes in the past that consumed NO oil regardless > > of speed, and it was nice. But again, I don't consider, IMO, it to be a > > real problem or pain. But that's just MY opinion. :^) > > > > And....as long as we are at it....I would gladly trade a few hp and a > > little drivetrain 'slop' to have a shaft drive on the GTS. It makes > > plenty of power for me and I don't think the hp difference would really > > be missed. And it would be clean....and quiet... ahh........ > > > > Brandon (With his last 2 cents leftover from his trip....) :^) > > > > ------------------------------ > > End of GTS-1000 Digest - 28 May 2001 to 29 May 2001 - Special issue (#2001-163) > **************************************************************************** ***
