Cedric Jeanneret wrote:
> 
> 
> On 08/14/2014 06:07 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>>
>>
>> Cédric Jeanneret wrote:
>>> On August 11, 2014 3:41:41 PM CEST, Nathan of Guardian 
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 08/11/2014 03:01 AM, Cédric Jeanneret wrote:
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> Currently working on orwall[1], a user submitted an interesting
>>>> issue[2].
>>>>>
>>>>> First, I thought "I'll need some lib [netCipher?] to be able to
>>>> manage
>>>>> Tor via some Orbot Intent", but now I'm just realizing there's the
>>>> Tor
>>>>> Admin port we may use as well…
>>>>
>>>> What are the specific settings you want to control in Orbot? At some
>>>> point, it seems like you are taking on more and more of the Orbot apps
>>>> features and functions, and so perhaps you should submit patches to us,
>>>> instead of adding more features into Orwall.
>>>
>>> Aim was to be able to create new transPort or SOCKS or DNSProxies. But this 
>>> seems to be useless seeing your other answers.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> ° I didn't see any password regarding Tor Admin Port — is that
>>>> correct?
>>>>> As it's a local port, does it mean any app knowing how to talk "Tor"
>>>> may
>>>>> connect and send commands in order to configure stuff?
>>>>
>>>> Any app may connect, but the control port is protected by a file cookie
>>>> value, that only Orbot has access to read. We could use the password
>>>> option in Orbot instead, but that would require a config change.
>>>
>>> Good news, I was a bit surprised. The commented method generating password 
>>> is a bit misleading, and I didn't dig further.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> ° Is it a good idea to send management/configuration commands through
>>>>> this port from an external app?
>>>>
>>>> Not really. Orbot is meant to be the controller, and protect the state
>>>> of the Tor instance.
>>>
>>> Right. Completely OK with that statement. Especially if there's a way to 
>>> order stuff to orbot.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> ° more related to the issue itself: is it possible to set up multiple
>>>>> DNSproxy and TransProxy in tor (seems it is the case)? Will the
>>>> circuits
>>>>> be different for each opened port? If not, any reason?
>>>>
>>>> If you are connecting to the SOCKS port, then you can force creation of
>>>> a new circuit for each connection by sending a random user/password
>>>> combo as part of the SOCKs authentication. Orbot can also send a
>>>> "NEWNYM" command to the control port to force the creation of new
>>>> circuits. We could open this up as part of the Intent API that
>>>> netcipher
>>>> users. Creating multiple ports to achieve the same thing isn't the best
>>>> approach.
>>>
>>> Oh?? Great! Meaning I may use netcipher in order to create "bridges" for 
>>> non-SOCKS-aware app with some random credentials as well? Pretty sure this 
>>> will be "the" way to go in order to get sort of per-app circuit…
>>>
>>> It would be great if the "NEWNYM" could be part of the intent, as this 
>>> would also allow other app to get the "torbutton" action "create new 
>>> identity" (or something lime that).
>>>
>>> Thanks a lot for your answers. Just to know, any ETA for the orbot intent 
>>> availability? Any dev-branch I may use in order to do some tests on my side 
>>> so that I can help you (a bit, my level is "beginner") ?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>> Just wanted to say quickly that it is great that you are making this app!  I
>> think your approach has a lot of promise for thinking about the future of Tor
>> and related stuff on Android.
> 
> Thanks for your support :). That makes me happy, really. Orwall was just
> an idea.
> Now it can be part of something bigger, and that's really great.
> 
>>
>> About Intents that control Tor, that is something that we need to do
>> carefully, since we don't want to open up vulnerabilities.  For example, it 
>> is
>> not entirely clear what are the security risks of allowing NEWNYM or even
>> starting tor by Intent.
>>
>> .hc
> 
> Well, Intent may require an authorization (like registration) from the
> external app.
> I explained a bit in the opened issue on orwall what would be "good".
> 
> Fact is, allowing, through the Intent, to add new configuration snippets
> isn't bad, as Orbot will be able to filter good/bad stuff.
> It may be interesting to trigger different warning messages depending on
> the action we're wanting to do:
> 
> ° add a new DNSProxy: not a huge security problem, just ask "do you
> accept … ?"
> 
> ° NEWNYM: if this may create problems (I don't see what, but I'm not a
> "Tor internal guy", just a simple user), another warning type may be
> used, why not with a link to the documentation
> 
> ° … and so on
> 
> OK, this will be complicated. This will take time, a lot of time. But
> doing it this way, carefully, action by action, should prevent most of
> the problems.
> 
> It would require to take, config key by config key, each possible
> action, filter them, ensure syntax is correct, ensure it won't break the
> service, ensure it won't leak data. This latest point will most probably
> be the most difficult. Especially when we want to add a ton of
> configuration in Tor.
> 
> As also said, in my case, orwall needs only 1-2 actions, basically
> add/remove DNSProxy ports, SOCKS ports and TransPorts (SOCKS isn't
> mandatory, as we can "fake" using random authentication, thus playing
> around with netCipher in order to do some smart proxy asking new
> circuits for each app).
> 
> I understand adding a new Intent, allowing external, potentially bad
> apps to play with Tor configuration is a threat. That's the price, I
> guess, in order to get some other possibilities for Orbot usage.
> 
> All will be about communication, explanation of the potentials problems
> if a user allows something and so on. And, well, trust. We (user) will
> need to trust third-party app playing with Orbot, thus Tor. Thus playing
> with our security.
> 
> Orwall has some needs — if they cannot be met, well, I'll find other
> ways, like netCipher proxying, though it won't be as easy, as smart and
> as clean as Orbot Intent ;).

I'm not sure of the exact details here, but I can see a reason why you'd need
to have multiple DNSProxy, SOCKs, etc. ports.


> Just for information: I've a similar request regarding i2p support in
> Tor, and there's currently a client library being developed. It should
> provide the same kind of stuff I'm asking from Orbot. That will make
> orwall a pretty nice app, supporting what I consider the two "main onion
> router systems" :).
> 
> By the way: I'm not a power-android-dev, but if I can help, just let me
> know. I can learn and, who knows, have some ideas ;).
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> C.


It would be great to support as many tools like this as possible, including of
course i2p.

.hc



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