A diagram would be helpful, but it is still too raw for that.  Its a moving
target, so too soon to document well.

But if you want a nice diagram, I can point you to the app swapping diagram ;)
https://dev.guardianproject.info/attachments/download/1431/distribution-ecosystem.png

.hc

Paul Gardner-Stephen:
> Okay, sounds good.  Is there a nice diagram that shows the steps.  I only
> ask this as while I think I have a handle on it this morning, it wasn't
> obvious last night how it works, and if I get confused about it when a
> little tired, my suspicion is that plenty of other people will, too.
> 
> Paul.
> 
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 9:21 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner <
> [email protected]> wrote:
> 
>>
>> The point here is to eliminate the need to trust f-droid or any other
>> entity.
>> f-droid.org is just one instance of this service, anyone can take
>> fdroidserver
>> and build their own instance.  Then there is additionally planned a
>> lightweight fdroid instance, the Verification Server, that just does
>> builds to
>> verify that they match what is published on f-droid.org.
>>
>> This whole thing is built on the APK signature, so you have to trust that.
>> FDroid is also rolling out GPG signatures, but making reproducible APKs
>> that
>> match by hash is a lot harder than match by APK signature.  But you don't
>> have
>> to trust any people in the whole chain, you can verify it all yourself, and
>> run your own instance.
>>
>> For the record, the F-Droid org is incorporated in the UK, so NSLs don't
>> apply.  But I imagine that the UK has something similar.  I'm not sure
>> where
>> the servers are.
>>
>> .hc
>>
>> Paul Gardner-Stephen:
>>> Super :)
>>>
>>> Now, how do we make sure that F-Droid doesn't get hit by a NSL?
>>>
>>> Paul.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 7:59 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner <
>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, this is very useful!  That's why we have implemented this in
>> FDroid.
>>>> Its
>>>> pretty raw at the moment, but we do have at least one app that has been
>>>> accepted to FDroid using a reproducible build process.  This app was
>> built
>>>> by
>>>> f-droid.org's build infrastructure, then compared against the official
>>>> Guardian Project build, and since they matched, f-droid.org published
>> an
>>>> APK
>>>> using our signature:
>>>>
>>>>
>> https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdid=info.guardianproject.checkey
>>>>
>>>> Anyone can submit their app to f-droid.org as long as it is all free
>>>> software.
>>>>  To make f-droid.org verify its build against yours, just include a
>>>> download
>>>> link to your official APK in the Binaries: metadata field:
>>>>
>>>>
>> https://gitlab.com/fdroid/fdroiddata/tree/master/metadata/info.guardianproject.checkey.txt
>>>>
>>>> You can read more here:
>>>> * https://f-droid.org/wiki/page/Deterministic,_Reproducible_Builds
>>>> * https://f-droid.org/wiki/page/Verification_Server
>>>>
>>>> .hc
>>>>
>>>> Paul Gardner-Stephen:
>>>>> Deterministic compilation of Android applications would be a great step
>>>>> forward to provide some protection against forced insertion of
>> backdoors
>>>>> into binaries.  Not perfect, but helpful.  Of course it doesn't help on
>>>>> Apple.
>>>>>
>>>>> It would also be interesting to have a mechanism where you can ask an
>>>>> application serve up the compiled byte code for any class for remote
>>>>> verification.  Of course this would be spoofable, but including the
>>>> "real"
>>>>> byte code would bloat the application, which would be noticeable in the
>>>>> increased size of the class files.
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, I am over-doing that.  We could have a service where the
>>>> android
>>>>> apps get compiled from public, auditable source code, and the APKs
>>>>> downloaded from the net or people's phones (to stop attacks forcing
>>>> Google
>>>>> to do two-faced apk serving, with the "bad" apk going to phones, and
>> the
>>>>> "good" apk going to the audit server).  Then compare the compiled
>> classes
>>>>> and resource files to look for any differences. Has the advantage that
>> it
>>>>> would reveal any naughty insertions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Would these be useful things?
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 1:22 AM, Patrick Connolly <
>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> This is great! Thanks, Nick!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Related to your comment, Tim, it might be informative if the
>> watermarks
>>>> of
>>>>>> the endorsers at the bottom of the "about" page were also near the top
>>>> of
>>>>>> the front. It seems the partners could be more visible on page one to
>>>> give
>>>>>> the whole project more weight.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've cc'd canary watch, as I'm not 100% sure Nick is on this list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Q: Why is this email [hopefully] five sentences or less? | A:
>>>>>> http://five.sentenc.es
>>>>>>
>>>>>> NOTE that my incoming emails are delayed from arriving in my inbox
>> until
>>>>>> 9am daily. If you need to reach me sooner, please use other means of
>>>>>> getting in touch. #slowwebmovement
>>>>>> On Feb 9, 2015 5:31 AM, "Hans-Christoph Steiner" <
>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I imagine EFF, Harvard Law's Berkman Center, and NYU Law had some
>>>> really
>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>> lawyers look at this before they endorsed it ;-)  It is uncharted
>>>>>>> territory to
>>>>>>> some degree, in terms of courts.  But it sounds like those lawyers
>>>>>>> forming a
>>>>>>> posse in case this does go to court.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also, for those who don't know, Nick Merrill, the man behind Calyx,
>> was
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> plaintiff in Doe v. Ashcroft, which challenged the legality of
>> aspects
>>>> of
>>>>>>> National Security Letters (NSLs):
>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Merrill
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can't really imagine a better legal team behind this effort.  I
>>>> suppose
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> are missing an ACLU endorsement...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> .hc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tim Bray:
>>>>>>>> I almost don’t want to show this to others because of the
>> alphabetical
>>>>>>>> ordering putting 8chan prominently at the top…  Also I’d like to
>> hear
>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>> really good lawyers take up the question of whether these things
>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>> work.  But interesting, thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 1:20 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner <
>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Looks like our man Nick has vetted the warrant canary idea and
>> thinks
>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>>>> worth doing:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://canarywatch.org/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> At the very least, there are a bunch of lawyers behind it (EFF,
>>>>>>> Berkman,
>>>>>>>>> NYU
>>>>>>>>> Law), so hopefully they'll be willing to offer their services if it
>>>>>>> comes
>>>>>>>>> to it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> .hc
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>>>>
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>>>
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>> https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0x9F0FE587374BBE81
>>
> 

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