Problem: without a concentrated mass that is substantially denser than the material being damaged, a slap type motion is not going to be doing nearly the damage of a thrust type motion backed with the mass of the body throwing it.
Does a bear slap? Sure, but against a similarly sized opponent a single bear-slap is not going to do a great deal of damage without hitting a vital component(eyes for example). A bear slap may be great at dealing with creatures two or more sizes smaller, but are not going to be more effective than, say a similarly sized human with a short, stabbing weapon. Felines also slap with(or without) claws, but doing so is mostly play or positioning. If they want to kill, they go with a bite, and if they can't bite, they rake with their hind claws(bracing with their front). Frankly, even with big claws, a fist, even with the arm, does not deliver as much energy during a swing as a thrust with the body behind it. Sure you get some penetration advantage with the claws, but without significant additional weight, an unarmed swing is just not going to have the leverage of a similar swing with a couple pounds of mass added at the end(club, sword, hammer, sap, etc) I think using thrust damage for a slap type claw attack is very reasonable because you just don't have a mass at the end to take full advantage of the leverage provided by a swing without some sort of combat specialized striker. On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Eduardo Alvarez <[email protected]> wrote: > > > --- On Tue, 10/20/09, Syndaryl <[email protected]> wrote: > >> From: Syndaryl <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [gurps] Claws (4th 3d, range) >> To: "The GURPSnet mailing list" <[email protected]> >> Date: Tuesday, October 20, 2009, 7:52 AM >> ----- Original Message ---- >> > From: "Max, Dunedin New Zealand" <[email protected]> >> > >> > Claws (B42, MA42). >> > >> > Is there any way these can be used at range 1, seems >> > odd that they can't considering there size, especially >> talons which can be used >> > as either impaling or cutting. >> >> The same way you can punch at range 1 - be SM +1, or buy >> Long arms (arm SM +1), possibly with a -60% "Clawing Only" >> limitation. >> >> Claws in 4e are substantially cheaper, among other reasons >> because they DON'T grant swing damage. This suggests they >> don't give you ANY mechanical advantage over your bare hands >> - they're just pointy or sharp. Impaling damage doesn't >> require excessive length - you already have three or four >> inches of fingers, plus or minus half an inch for a claw >> like a bears finger-tip-covering claw, or like an arrow >> head, and voilla, impaling. >> >> > That being said, just by watching nature shows, and the shape of the typical > claw (not talon) impaling is not what happens. Rather, the animal swings its > arm, much like someone slapping (hey! "punching" with swinging damage!) and > the claw cuts. So while the claws per se don't give you a mechanical > advantage, the movement needed to use claws effectively (as opposed to > punching) does. > > Also, the question the OP posed has to do with reach, which is independent of > the motion. I think he's right. I'd allow talons and above, at least to have > longer reach. > > Eduardo Alvarez > > > > _______________________________________________ > GurpsNet-L mailing list <[email protected]> > http://mail.sjgames.com/mailman/listinfo/gurpsnet-l > -- The man that holds fast to his bitterness will eventually be consumed by it, but if you let it go, your arms will be free to seize the glory that is life. -Terwin _______________________________________________ GurpsNet-L mailing list <[email protected]> http://mail.sjgames.com/mailman/listinfo/gurpsnet-l
