I announced earlier this week that I will have a audio chat get together primarily focusing on window-eyes. We'll have lots of work arounds for troublesome situations. So come join the chat at 2 o'clock pacific, 4 central time and 5 eastern time at http://www.acbradio.org in our place in the radio room. This chat will be held today, saturday august 23rd. Yall come and lets talk. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wayne
----- Original Message ----- From: "Curtis Delzer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Window-Eyes discussion list" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 3:17 PM Subject: anyone have trouble ... Presuming most of you run updates on your computers on a regular basis to thwart the bad guys, as such, how many of you have had severe problems after an update has been installed? Window-Eyes, with it's backup synthesizer function, if that synthesizer is a hardware one, gives us an option, particularly if we're normally running a software based one, but what about those times when something happens and windows itself prompts to reload an earlier configuration? What's wrong with the jfw-window-eyes-hal-nvda-others, who don't give us access to our computers at these C R I T I C A L times? We are relegated to asking a sighted person who, more often than not, knows a lot less about our computers than we do, to help, and often times grudgingly, or reluctantly or even willingly, they do consent to "read the screen." Elementary, my dear Watson, you say? Not elementary at all, and all you screen reader manufacturers have come up severely wanting in this area, and no defense is possible since thought is not into how to solve critical problems even before the operating system is operating, but only in handling what does talk, why something else won't, but ONLY after everything else, is loaded. Ok, ok, don't make me a target of your seething responses, make the target solving the problems for that when, it happens, is a disaster or one which should be able to be handled again, by something which can be loaded at the system level, or externally in a box which talks rudimentary level things like this prompt my friend experienced today. Now if she had sight, what would happen? F8 or safe mode, then a loading of an earlier session of windows and poof, probably a reboot into operating mode again, but only with the help of a sighted person who has that elementary access which we do not have. We did at dos, not in Windows. . Isn't it time we start at least looking at conditions where, for whatever reason, our computers don't talk, and look at it from the other end, the monitor hardware end? Conditions in which, now, Window-Eyes won't talk because of a particular prompt which usurps the computers ability to function because the prompt condition stops most manipulations of the keyboard until it is satisfied, again, by some kind of hardware intervention from the monitor end we could probably handle it. Aren't computers smart enough from a point of view of hardware and internal not-connected software to operate that hardware to make it talk? Twenty years ago when Artic Business Vision was strong, Vocal-Eyes I think was here, sure, the idea of a screen reader and hardware was a given, since that hardware was needed to do the talking, and the software was to do the manipulating. Now, can't a screen reader as such be put on a chip, and with appropriate hooks and handles integrated into a monitor, just like one we plug into our computers? I say, smart enough, and I do mean that, computers could be given the task of looking at said output of the monitor end of a computer, analyzing what goes on, particularly at the critical times at boot up when something goes wrong more often than many of us want to admit, especially when an update happens. We blame the updates, when, in fact, another corruption has taken place, a corruption of the restore points and when a later restore point is attempted, it fails so, CRASH, and bells and whistles ... only, no bells, whistles or sound, no nothing, only obvious to monitor bound sighted individuals like all you guys at GW-Micro who write code, exactly what is going on. When I get calls like this that say, "my computer won't talk, what do I do?" Generally I can solve them because something is unplugged, and it has come loose, or a prompt like "press any key to continue," or, I tell them to wait, that a crash has caused your computer to diagnose it's hard drive, looking through files and making sure all is well before it starts, but when, as today, and other times, Windows is prompting for something which cannot be seen, or heard, then I realize frustration at when, it comes right to it, automatic access is not a given, but only after all other systems are go, only at the log on screen, and not before. It's a shame, that development was not even attempted recently beginning at the monitor end, and I am not stupid enough to think it is easy, no way is it easy, but neither was the invention of screen reading technology. This is not to say I do not appreciate what happens when I turn on my computer and can, and do, handle most problems because of a given screen reader, appreciation is not the point of this message, frustration is, so don't mix up, please, my appreciation with my frustration. If you must rile at me, make it cogent, factual, and explain in those terms why, even a rudimentary look is not possible at our computers' configurations from the monitor end at the present time, where adding too, modifying, changing etc. at the bios level, for example, hard drives, boot order, etc. Now, I think it is too late, since the fact is that we are doing so well as screen reader consumers that we don't think of the problems that can happen until they do, at the system level, but when they do, and your boss is counting on work from you that day, your husband or wife or son whom is sighted is not available and neither is a neighbor, the results which you truly needed for that assignment were only a reboot away and collection from a file readily under your documents, and because of an update which, it is believed, is the reason for all the problems, and that update has crashed your operating system, you can't see the screen to press F8 to enter safe mode and load an earlier configuration of Windows which did work, then it comes down to the time when the rubber meats the road. You cannot do your work, excuses must be made for not being able to handle, you blame the updates for all your problems, you refuse to have automatic updates turned on ever again because, after all they caused all the problems in the first place ... get the idea? How many more updates in the future are going to happen because of the proliferation of bad guys who wish, only for their particular kind of warped enjoyment, to cause problems for Microsoft? Since we rely on Microsoft, we must believe that their updates are thoroughly tested and they will not crash our computers often, but apparently they do as in my friend's case, and her computer is off-line and she cannot do her work today because of that particular update. Or, was it the update's fault? The point of all this is access, and access at a level where something can be done about restoring from an earlier configuration which did work. Twenty years should have given someone the impetus to look at the problems, and now that more and more updates will happen because of the proliferation of bad guys and their interesting in making Microsoft a target, and if updates crash computers as they inevitably will, then more and more attention should be given the need for access to our computers at the system level. If all software speech, hard ware speech cannot be manipulated at any level, then a box which plugs into where our monitors are plugged in is not only a good idea, but would make us a lot less dependent on others to help. Curtis Delzer. HS If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. All GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo, and can be searched through and sorted using the search form at the bottom of the page. If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include leave gw-info in the body of the message. If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. All GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo, and can be searched through and sorted using the search form at the bottom of the page. If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include leave gw-info in the body of the message.
