Hi Mike, IF you don't understand the point that I made in my last post, I just can't add any more descriptive info. The same loss of issue exists with the voice tone adjustment in the new Eloquence. A feature should only be dropped if a majority of users decide that it is more trouble than it is worth and I don't remember GW asking this list if they wanted to strip features out of Window-Eyes.
Bob Tinney, K8LR, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype, bobtinn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D. Lawler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 3:32 PM Subject: Re: WE 7 Beta 3 issues and priorities It worked most of the time for you on your system, but as I said look at the archives. There have many previous position problems and they happen on some systems and not on others. Again I'm saying set your verbosity to read nothing to keep the previous position in your case and then do control-shift-r to do a read-to-end. This is just another work around just like using the mouse keys in Skype in 6.1. At 03:27 PM 9/12/2008, you wrote: >Mike. >When I was talking about Skype work arounds, the mouse keys were the only >way to get the information at that time. When I'm talking about read to >end, I'm talking about a feature that worked almost all of the time, that >has been totally broken and that is unacceptable. > >Bob Tinney, K8LR, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Skype, bobtinn >from a guy that knows everything about nothing, > and nothing about everything! > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Michael D. Lawler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 2:30 PM >Subject: Re: WE 7 Beta 3 issues and priorities > > >Well if your criteria for rock solid means no bugs then no version of >WE is rock solid. Our criteria is stability and 7.0 fixes many many >gpf reports that 6.1 has. It also has many other improvements other >than scripting. Also this feature didn't work correctly in 6.1 it >just happened to work for you in your situation. Just search the >archives for gw-info. It just seems to me that you are saying >because your itch isn't getting scratched that you are going to take >your ball and go home. Please help me understand how this isn't the >case. Do you really want us to spend time hacking on a problematic >feature with a bad implementation just to try to get it working in >your specific situation now rather than doing it correctly even if it >means waiting longer? Is it really that difficult to press >control-shift-r? I am not asking this as a personal attack rather it >is a serious question. Don't we have a responsibility to our users >to apply the limitted time and resources we have in the most >effective way possible? If this were about an issue that personally >didn't impact you wouldn't you be writing to tell users to use work >arounds? Remember WE 6.1 and Skype? When people complained about >the lack of support in 6.1 didn't you write defending WE and GW and >telling users that with a little mouse key usage it was >workable? Why are you not applying the same logic to this situation? > > > >At 01:49 PM 9/12/2008, you wrote: > >Mike, > >I do understand that as programs change and improve, certain parameters > >must > >change. I, for one, believe that old features should be kept unless they > >are replaced by a better feature. As I have said before, I'll just go > >back > >to 6.1 until the read to end feature is fixed. Scripts are nice, but not > >necessary as they do slow Win-Eyes down a little. > >I am not withdrawing my previous comments about rock solid because We's > >beta > >is not currently rock solid in my opinion. By the way, when I replied to > >your message, I lost speech and had to start NVDa to close we as > >insert-control-f4 didn't work. > >Bob Tinney, K8LR, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Skype, bobtinn > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Michael D. Lawler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <[email protected]> > >Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 1:10 PM > >Subject: Re: WE 7 Beta 3 issues and priorities > > > > > >Bob, we do plan on implementing the ability to use tone in the new > >Eloquence driver just like it is done in SAPI. If this doesn't make > >7.0 it is a synthesizer driver change so we will be able to make it > >available when it is done. Now to address your frustrations. Feel > >free to call us as tone doesn't always come through in email, but > >since you put this on the list I'll address it on the list. > > > >1. We have only had your request and maybe one or two more for the > >Eloquence change. We are going to do it, but it wasn't as high of a > >priority as other issues as we have to do the most requested items first. > >2. For the IE Read-To-End thing you do have work arounds. Turn it > >to read nothing and manually press control-shift-r is the most > >reliable approach. I have talked to you several times and generally > >see you as a rational minded person. Do you honestly feel that we > >should spend time on code that is going to be completely rewritten > >for 7.0 to address this? Keep in mind it didn't completely work in > >6.1 and it would take a lot of time to try to get it working as well > >as it did in 6.1 without introducing regressions. Note that the > >problem has nothing to do with scripting. It has to do with changes > >we did to read-to-end to make it more reliable. Since there is a > >work around I just don't see this as practical. Your assertion that > >we are just like FS and that WE isn't rock solid just isn't fair. I > >work here and don't get every bug/feature that I'm personally > >interested in addressed as quickly as I would like, but I don't just > >find a new job because GW isn't doing exactly what I want. I just > >don't feel that your accusation is fair as we will address the issues > >in the most time effective manner and ultimately it will be far > >better than it was in 6.1. We all have to work together on issues > >and I feel that my work around is acceptable until we can come up > >with a better more full proof solution. > > > > > > > >At 09:11 PM 9/11/2008, you wrote: > > >Sam, I also agree that the loss of speech issue should be resolved > > >before > > >a > > >full release comes out. There are two more things that I can think of > > >that > > >should also be fixed > > > > > >First, the read to end problem was broken with WE 7 betas and > > >apparently > > >GW > > >Micro is not going to fix this problem before version seven comes out. > > >I > > >thought that GW Micro was dedicated to releasing a rock solid product, > > >but > > >I > > >guess they are just spouting words, like FS. > > > > > >Another problem that needs to be fixed is that with the new eloquence, > > >the > > >voice tone can not be changed. That is very important to many users. > > > > > >I hope that GW Micro reconsiders releasing a broken product, cause Rock > > >Solid sure doesn't apply to version 7 beta 3! > > > > > >Bob Tinney, K8LR, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >Skype, bobtinn > > >Original Message ----- > > >From: Sam bushman > > >To: [email protected] > > >Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:31 PM > > >Subject: WE 7 Beta 3 issues and priorities > > > > > > > > >Hi all, > > > > > >Is it possible to get a beta 3 priorities list together? > > >I like it when we find bugs report them they are duplicated and fixed > > >for > > >the next version. > > > > > >But, we need to start to focus on the most important issues / a > > >priority > > >list if you will. > > >In other words ... many of us are reporting the same things over and > > >over. > > >I agree they are problems but, GW has basically said they aren't > > >working > > >on > > >msaa stuff. > > >So, email, web browsers pdf files (any thing that uses msaa is not the > > >focus). > > >It doesn't matter if we agree that is the proper order ... that is what > > >is > > >set for fix / release. > > > > > >I personally would have rerote the msaa / browse mode stuff way before > > >I > > >would have added power point / itunes and scripting. > > >But, GW has the list of what they think best and we need to trust them > > >and > > >be part of the solution for the next release ... isn't that what we > > >agree > > >to > > >when we use / run the beta. > > > > > >Now please don't email the list debating with the above and the pros > > >and > > >cons of this are. > > >I am not trying to speak for GW and am just repeating what I personally > > >think they said and ment. > > > > > >Personally the loss of speech is the biggest issue for me. > > >I lost speach yesterday ... couldn't get it back for the life of me. > > >I had a sighted daughter say that we was running and she clicked around > > >and > > >the computer was working perfectly. > > >She didn't know why the speach was not happening but, I had her click > > >on > > >the > > >system tray icon for WE and exit the program. > > >It exited cleanly and I just pressed ctrl-alt-w and we came back to > > >life. > > >No errors of any kind and when I tried to send an error report WE said > > >there > > >were no errors to report. > > >The sad part about this is I was not able to get GW any info to help > > >resolve > > >this (huge!) loss of speach issue. > > >Since we would like WE to be rock solid and would love to have speech > > >as > > >reliable as the screen output ... I am hoping all of us can come up > > >with > > >a > > >way to duplicate and help GW resolve this main issue. > > > > > >Any ideas on this? > > > > > >If GW could give us a list of things we should try and do in order when > > >we > > >loose speech we may get them more info that would be helpful. > > >Currently I know that the story I just told about loss of speech above > > >doesn't help them at all. > > >But, If I know exactly what they are looking for and what they want me > > >to > > >do > > >in order and reported solid step by step info ... they could get to the > > >bottom of this. > > > > > >Any ideas are welcome. > > >Any one else think the loss of speech issue is bar none the biggest > > >issue > > >for us? > > > > > >Thanks for listening. > > >Sam bushman > > > > > > > > >If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original > > >sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and > > >your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending > > >your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. > > > > > >All GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo, and > > >can > > >be searched through and sorted using the search > > >form at the bottom of the page. > > > > > >If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, send a message to > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and include leave gw-info in the body > > >of the message. > > > > > >If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original > > >sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and > > >your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending > > >your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. > > > > > >All GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo, > > >and can be searched through and sorted using the search > > >form at the bottom of the page. > > > > > >If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, send a message to > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and include leave gw-info in the body > > >of the message. > > > >-- > >Michael D. Lawler > >Voice 260-489-3671 > >Fax 260-489-2608 > >Internet mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >web http://www.gwmicro.com > >ftp ftp://ftp.gwmicro.com > >GW Micro, Inc., > >Development Liaison and Technical Support Supervisor > > > >If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original > >sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and > >your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending > >your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. > > > >All GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo, and > >can > >be searched through and sorted using the search > >form at the bottom of the page. > > > >If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, send a message to > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and include leave gw-info in the body > >of the message. > > > >If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original > >sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and > >your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending > >your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. > > > >All GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo, > >and can be searched through and sorted using the search > >form at the bottom of the page. > > > >If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, send a message to > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and include leave gw-info in the body > >of the message. > >-- >Michael D. Lawler >Voice 260-489-3671 >Fax 260-489-2608 >Internet mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >web http://www.gwmicro.com >ftp ftp://ftp.gwmicro.com >GW Micro, Inc., >Development Liaison and Technical Support Supervisor > >If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original >sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and >your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending >your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. > >All GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo, and can >be searched through and sorted using the search >form at the bottom of the page. > >If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, send a message to >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and include leave gw-info in the body >of the message. > >If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original >sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and >your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending >your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. > >All GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo, >and can be searched through and sorted using the search >form at the bottom of the page. > >If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, send a message to >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and include leave gw-info in the body >of the message. -- Michael D. Lawler Voice 260-489-3671 Fax 260-489-2608 Internet mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] web http://www.gwmicro.com ftp ftp://ftp.gwmicro.com GW Micro, Inc., Development Liaison and Technical Support Supervisor If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. All GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo, and can be searched through and sorted using the search form at the bottom of the page. If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include leave gw-info in the body of the message. If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. All GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo, and can be searched through and sorted using the search form at the bottom of the page. If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include leave gw-info in the body of the message.
