And, if anyone doesn't understand about the absolute priority for 64-bit
support, try and buy a new pc these days and look at what it comes with:
it's close to 100% 64-bit versions of the OS. sometimes you can
special-order a 32-bit version, but I know several people who didn't think
about the question first, and when their new pc arrived, it had a 64-bit
OS
that their screen reader was not compatible with. what do they do then?
I'm only pointing out how circumstances can gang up on you to make you do
things out of order.
Chip
-----Original Message-----
From: Aaron Smith [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 1:17 PM
To: Sam bushman
Cc: Don H; gwmicro
Subject: Re: Browse Mode - a suggestion/question
Sam, I really think you need a new hobby. <grin>
Honestly. I don't know how many times we have to say it over, and over,
and
over, and over, and over, but compared to the other issues on our plate,
browse mode was not number one. Yes, not being able to access some sites
is
at the least annoying, and at the most, downright occupationally critical.
The majority of Window-Eyes users fall somewhere in between.
And, you might want to sit down for this one, believe it or not, users in
the United States aren't the only people using Window-Eyes. I know, I
know.
It's hard for an American to imagine he or she isn't the top priority in
the
world. <grin>
Window-Eyes users span the entire globe. We're in every hemisphere, and on
every continent. And the needs of overseas users were not being met, so we
needed to put them first for once, and work on enhancing Braille,
localization, and a few other issues. That was a major undertaking.
We also had to get 64-bit support out. That was far more of a must for
people's jobs than browse mode. It wasn't just to shut Don H up. We also
had
to make sure that support for Windows 7 was up to par with everything
else,
and that also included the 64-bit version of Windows 7.
We enhanced our edit box support to provide 100% text accuracy, but in the
beginnings, that brought out a lot of regressions that we had to go
through.
There were scripting issues that were slated for 7.0, but didn't make it.
We
couldn't keep pushing those back, because scripting needs to stay
competitive.
Did you know that we had almost 30 private betas trying to work this stuff
out before we could get something to the public? No, of course you don't,
because you're too busy coming up with conspiracy theories as to why
things
weren't resolved as you thought they should have been. That sounds more
harsh than I intend it to sound; I'm mostly being facetious.
But I want to make my point clear: when we sit down and work out the
roadmap
for the next version of Window-Eyes, we don't ask our lawyers what they
think. We don't have shareholders to consult. We don't have a bottom line
that needs to be met. We do what we feel needs to be done for the majority
of our (worldwide) users.
I know the idea of Window-Eyes development being shrouded in the secrecy
of
unknown legal proceedings and denials of being able to comment on what's
going on is much more titillating. But it's also make believe.
Aaron
On 6/27/2009 12:53 PM, Sam bushman wrote:
I just had an important thought, ... browse mode / place markers are
at the heart of the problems with freedom ... !
Well browse mode is also the part gw has not been willing to work on!
I am only speaking for my self and not involved in any issues with any
law suits etc.
So I have the opinion that gw will not do much with browse mode ...
'til they get clear of that stuff.
maybe I am wrong but, why lay your hand out to the opposition in the
middle of all that?
The best course of action would be to lay low ... finish that law suit
stuff with a strong hand ... then when clear ... have in the wings a
killer update that blows away the compitition?
Just a thought.
Sam
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Don H <mailto:[email protected]>
*To:* gwmicro <mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent:* Saturday, June 27, 2009 10:28 AM
*Subject:* Re: Browse Mode - a suggestion/question
Hopefully now with the release of 7.1 GW will be working full speed
ahead to resolve browse mode issues. Don't think we will get a date
out of GW for the release of version 8 but if I were a betting man I
would say around the end of the year.
----- Original Message -----
*From:* David <mailto:[email protected]>
*To:* WE English mailing list <mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent:* Saturday, June 27, 2009 11:19 AM
*Subject:* Browse Mode - a suggestion/question
For quite a while now, Browse mode, has basically stayed the
same. For all of what I know, it might have been this way
forever - I did get in touch with WE in version 6.0.
To claim, there has been no updates to browse mode, would be
totally out of range. It's enough to just mention the
placemarker functions, implemented with WE7. Still these have
been to some extend, what we could discribe as Minor updates or
changes.
For at least a year, GW staff has told us, there will be a major
update, or even a rebuild of the whole, browse mode -
sometime... NO! This is no complaining message, I just try to
sum up, the facts, as far as my knowledge goes. And I do
understand the reason for the REBUILD of the Browse Mode, and
that there is nothing in stone yet. That is actually what all of
this message is all about...
The problem, as it is by date, and has been for all the past, is
that Brose Mode is a part of the basic WE code. This means, that
ONLY GW staff has access to it, and ONLY they can change it.
They are few, and have limited resources. They also have to make
priorities when comes to what features to update, and maintain.
But the WEB, is a quite dynamic place. It changes often, and it
does so, OVER NIGHT. Go to your favorite webpage today,
everything is fine, open it tomorrow, and you are stuck - the
webmaster had the joky idea in his head last night, to change
one tiny piece of code, and you are helplessly left behind. You
go to the WE mailing list, and sigh out your heart, and is told
that somewhere down the line, someone down the staff, will do
something down the code... And meanwhile? When we first were
told that plans were for an update to Browse Mode, last year,
the web had this and that, that was inaccessible. If we look one
year, two years, or whatever ahead, to get the rebuild, the web
will have changed dramtically, and the whole process will have
to be repeated.
OK, enough for the summing up. Here is my suggestion: Up till
WE6.1, the WE code made up the whole WE software, and that was
what you got, and what you had to stick to. From WE7, the
software has become FAR more dynamic, by entering into the
scripting world. This gives us big opportunites, when comes to
keeping the software UP-TO-DATE, and running even under brand
new circumstances.
GW Staff:
Why not simply remove the browse Mode from the basic code, and
make it all into a script???
Scripting the Browse Mode, would give several conveniences.
First of all, not only GW staff would have access to it, meaning
that if they don't have time to update, others might get the
chance to jump in and give a hand. Secondly, the update would be
far quicker and more easily done. Third, the users could benefit
from the updates, even if they don't have the money to run and
buy a newer version of WE, at least to some extend (most scripts
can, for instance, be run as well under WE7, WE7.01, and WE7.1).
Fourth, scripting would open up for features, that might not be
possible, easily, to fit into the basic code.
How well would this way of doing things work? Well, I did use
another screen reader - back a few years ago - the German
Blindows. They had done a similar solution, having no browse
mode implemented in the screen reader itself, but bunddled it
with a scripted software named WebFormator. The scripted browse
mode, simply kicked in, whenever IE was opened, just like the
Browse Mode of WE does. In practical, daily, use, the user might
not even notice the difference. But when comes to the frequency,
and time needed, to get out updates, everyone would benefit.
ALLRIGHT, you all might state - and I guess this is the first
reply we will get from staff members - but this will have to be
in a later version of WE, sometime down the years.... !!! NO !!!
Should be possible to get this done, already, with no new
version of WE. A script could be out, that simply OVERRIDES the
'built-in' Browse Mode, that is implemented in WE as per date.
Later on, yes, go ahead and remove the built-in Browse Mode, but
the script could be out far sooner than a new version of WE. A
bit of a job to built such a script? OH, YES! But what a job to
rebuilt the built-in code in WE? And when will next version of
WE come out? Again, no complaint, but let's face the fact. Few
things that the users put their screen reader on to accomplish,
is any more dynamically, and rapidly changing, than namely the
WEB. We've got scripts for far more stabile and non-dynamic
tasks than that, already. As time goes by, more and more of the
web will rapidly change. If GW have to rebuild their code for
all of these changes, they will soon find they have to run a
whole staff on just that one task. Putting it out as a script,
will take away a good portion of that pressure, from their
shoulders, as stated in the four points above.
Well, what do you listers, think about this?
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To insure that you receive proper support, please include all past
correspondence (where applicable), and any relevant information pertinent
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Support Team.
Aaron Smith
GW Micro
Phone: 260/489-3671
Fax: 260/489-2608
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Technical Support & Web Development
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