Chip,I appreciate all the help you have given me. I will look at all of that stuff tomorrow or the next day. It all depends on whether i procrastonate tomorrow or the next day though. I should have some down time to work at it tomorrow depends like i said.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Chip Orange" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 7:49 PM Subject: RE: Window-Eyes Script Writing
Hi Jennifer, as mentioned in the part 2 of the "so you want to write a script" wikiarticle, there are many scripts which help you figure out what the names andother properties are of the different elements in a window. TreeView is one such script (from GW), and VirtualExplorer (from Jamal) is another. there are others.if you can't tab to a control, then once you can get it's name using one of the above mentioned scripts, then you can possibly write some scripting codewhich will locate the window of the control for you; then, once you have that, you can setup a hotkey so it makes that control get the focus. It's almost as good as being able to tab. In fact, if you want to take it further and make tab work, then you could write a script which is notified each time a tab is pressed, and if the focus is on the control which you think should be just before the one you can't tab to, then you could just move the focus to the one you want to be on next. just some ideas for you to think about. Chip -----Original Message----- From: Jennifer Palmer [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 8:09 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Window-Eyes Script Writing well, ice chat may be a bit of a problem. elements aren't very easy to figure out what they are and some if not most elements aren't labeled. tabbing between the nick list and the edit box isnt possible from what isaw, hopefully my forum membership will be approved and i can write down myaccessibility issues to hopefully be fixed in the next major release. Of course i am not giving up on free irc clients. GOing to see how x chat works too. I will make some sort of free irc client that can connect to multiple servers work for at least window-eyes users. I don't give up no since in giving up. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Hinton" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 5:55 PM Subject: Re: Window-Eyes Script WritingI'd like to apologize for my recent outburst on this list. I'll take the suggestions on this thread and consult the GW Micro wiki from time-to time as well as looking at the actual scripts in Notepad and such. Perhaps the best way to learn if one is not willing to sit through lengthy tutorials is to get down and durty with the Window-Eyes scripting language and look at say the WinAmp scripts, etc? And I'm sure that if a beginner needs to ask questions on here then that should be fine. I'll talkt o you folks soon. Take care. On 8/22/10, Chip Orange <[email protected]> wrote:thanks Richard, all great points. I understand though, this is a frustrating topic on both ends; both from theend of people needing the info, and those of us who try, but don't get it quite right. we both tend to snap when we get frustrated. thanks to Youand Bruce for reminding us of that. Chip -----Original Message----- From: Richard G Applegate [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 2:20 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Window-Eyes Script Writing Keith: If I might suggest: 1. When one is asking for assistance one should never make attacks uponthose who are trying to offer such assistance. I dare say the fellow youare attacking is probably much more knowledgeable of Window-Eyes and the Visual Basic scripting language than either you or I. If you don't find some of his suggestions to be helpful, you might indicate that in a more diplomatic fashion as another person on the list has done. I too have a vague understanding of the concepts of VBS and the Window-Eyes object model as well as HTML and C++. Unfortunately, I have also been unable to translate my vague understanding into Window-Eyes scripting abilities. This is not due to the idiocy or stupidity of someone else's offerings; it is because I haven't spent the time, effort and/or money required to learn the material. 2. The members on this list are offering their knowledge voluntarily. Yourstatement that someone needs to do this or that is false. Those who havea working or better knowledge of VBS and Window-Eyes will suffer no ill effects if you are unable to translate their offerings into useable information. It may be true that you need things presented in a different manner, but that need is yours. You may find their offerings of little or no value, but how much have you paid for the information? I for one appreciate all of the offerings of assistance made on this topic. Not allof them have been helpful to me, in fact none of them have turned me intoa Window-Eyes scripter, but that doesn't mean the information is of no value. My suggestions are also at no cost. If you can't use them, don't bother responding just delete the message. -----Original Message----- From: Keith Hinton [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 7:41 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Window-Eyes Script Writing What is all this nonsense? I have worked with HTML a little bit. I know XML is similar, and I've seen some XML files. No thanks, I refuse to read your stupid idiotic Microsoft Visual Basic Scripting HTMl webpage tutorial. I am not stupid enough to read a stuipd dumb-idiotic document like that. If the tutorial is not specific to Window-Eyes, and VB scripting, than I am going to give up right this second, and there sin't anything that the GW Micro staff, or anyone else can do to stop me. I just totally refuse to read that tutorial you mentioned, so you wasted your time in even attaching it. Don't try to do that again. Tom's right, and BT, you aren't. Such a thing would totally overwelm somone like me, and it already ahs. I agree with what Tom wrote, and not you. Your speech example totally sucks. No offense, but maybe you need to go back to Doug Geoffray and Aaron and have them hold your hand while they walk you thorught he speak "Hello World!" or other such commands yourself. I don't think that Aaron, Raul, or Doug, would make a beginner read a tutorial that had nothing to do with Window-Eyes scripting. What a disappointing help this list has turned out to be. If GW Micro can't do better than that witht he resources it provides, thanwhat is the point in me trying to learn when the very users I'm trying toasks questions of decide to givem e links that I consider pointless? I don't use Outlook express, and work primarily with web-based emails. I refuse to go saving HTML files onto my hard-drive.No offense, but if you want to learn Window-Eyes scripting, I would thinkthat Chip Orenges examples in the wiki on part two are at least more practical than the Microsoft VBScripting refference. Unless this can be recitifiedd and I can really get a clear look at how VBScript relates to Window-Eyes only, than you folks on this list (and Tom this isn't about you or chip) it's your other friend who keeps posting useless examples and links of refference to this list) has turned me off completeyl from even attempting a simpol script. All I can do with any confidence is something like Speak "Hello World!" That is an easy script. Anyone could do that one without even reffernecing Chip Orenges wiki article. I understand Doug Geoffrays example of VB script, I have an idea of how methods and propertys work. What I want is some tutorial or examples that teaches a user VBScript, but specifically teaches you VBScript with WIndow-Eyes as the soul topic. Sorry, btu somsone on this list still needs to put the time and efort into to creating one. I'll help if I can, but that's my opinion.I have no interest in doing VBScript for anything but Window-Eyes itself,no HTML, no XML unless it relates to Window-Eyes alone. I thoguht that some of the examples when learning the jAWS scripting language for instance way back with JAWS3.7 well..the manual was a bit too detailed. And the examples in the manual flew over my head. I reached a point where I just couldn't keep learning. Not that I didn't try, but once I began leeping into variables and other such things, the manual only got more involved, not less. Tutorials should not be super super complex to a beginner. A tutorial for the beginner is what I am after. Specifically dedicated to my point, teaching the beginner through practical examples and stuf how to script with Window-Eyes.VB Script is something I can learn by reading official microsoft manuals,etc. I don't need a tutorial to do that. I can always reffernece Tom's examples on this thread, Chips writing, look at script code, and such, replay the only script recordings I have. As for attending GW Micro training classes, I've looked at the prices. I don't have a job at the moment, and own't go into details, here, but could never aford Window-Eyes training classes nor the phone training. I don't make over 600 dollars a month and am on a fixed income for those who really want the point blank truth. I can't attend a Window-Eyes training class. I work a little easier with one-on-one personally-and this has held true thorughout my entire life. Not simply computer discussions. :) If any of you on this list are interested on adding me to Skype, my Skype ID is skypedude1234 Thanks for attaching what I consider to be point blank useless material IMO.Unless it again, is dedicated to Window-Eyes and how VB script works withWindow-Eyes so that you can then write a VBS script for Window-Eyes that will make an application work, then..who knows. ..well , I've ran out of stuff to rant about. Better quit before I enter chapter Nindy of the rant world. On 8/21/10, Tom Kingston <[email protected]> wrote:Well, I haven't a clue as to how I gave the impression I wanted to learn scripting outside of Window-Eyes within a thread on Window-Eyes script writing. But so be it. These things happen. My point is still that this is all only making things much morebewilderingto anyone interested in scripting Window-Eyes. I didn't read through your entire WSC code as I don't see the point. All the speech parameters suchaspitch, rate, volume, etc. can be changed using the Window-Eyes objectmodel.And we're able to control the synthesizer the user is using rather than seeing what SAPI voices are on their machine. I guess we've somehow landed in an apples an oranges orchard here. But that's fine. Obviously you're trying to help, and I appreciate it. I just think the bottom line is that the only true incentive to get folks writing Window-Eyes scripts is going to be a comprehensive tutorialfocusingstrictly on just that rather than tossing endless abstract resources at them. But I also fully realize that creating such will be an enormous undertaking. The problem is that the resources out there, while virtually endless, are a total hit or miss when it comes to what someone who just wants to script Window-Eyes needs. And how is the beginner suppose to know what he or she needs and what they don't, not to mention what's going tobeliterally a waste of time. This is the quandary scripting presents. It's akin to having the ultimate toolbox handed to you within which are thetoolsto build anything you desire. But what do you do with a toolbox full of tools you don't know how to use and haven't a clue as to how to build anything? It's called the catch-22 toolbox. Well, I guess we've run this dry. At least for today. Again, I recognizeandappreciate your good intentions, Bruce. So thanks for taking the time toaddyour input. Regards, Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "BT" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 11:45 PM Subject: Re: Window-Eyes Script WritingHi Tom, Only posted that method is because you wanted to know scriptingoutsideof Windoweyes, at least I thought that. Your complaint is exactly what I complained about months ago when I joined the listing. So, instead of reading what they had I learned .VBS code, wrote my own speech as posted in previous emails. This speech package is to allow speech without worrying about Windoweyes, for I found the same issues as you have and sincerely hopethetutorial Chip is writing gets to be more in depth so no one has to jumptoMicrosoft or any where else. The Methods you point out for windoweyes is true. The only difference is I use an instanced labeled as C and the dot after it is all the speech methods used in speech; listed in the methods list inside the class. Granted Windoweyes uses only the word speech, but that is for speaking only. So, I posted the actual SAPI format and how to construct all voice parms. It is for both SAPI 4 and SAPI 5 and those 2 can be the sameif percentages is used for both as you will see in some of the methods.It would be nice to have a nice tutorial that goes from basic script writing all the way into Windoweyes. I just gave you another approach to learn some of the scripts, which still requires the formats in the Windoweyes version. What Chip last wrote is an improvement of what existed several months ago. So, I guess it is work in progress. Sorry about not knowing about your knowledge, just did not know... Also, I never got a copy of the last 2 posts I made, probably because of the attachment. Sincerely Bruce I should also clarify for anyone interested in learning to script that this TTS example has absolutely nothing to do with Window-Eyes scripting. Read it and be intimidated if you wish. Then realize that in order to make Window-Eyes speak you do nothing more than use a Speak command, such asinthe following. Speak "Hello world!" In a script you're writing for Window-Eyes, that's it. Use the Speak command to tell Window-Eyes what to speak and you're done. The method outlined below is for a stand-alone script to run independent of Window-Eyes by usingtheWindows scripting host. Again, this has absolutely nothing to do with scripting Window-Eyes. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Kingston" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 11:19 PM Subject: Re: Window-Eyes Script WritingThanks for the lesson, but I've been programming for 20 years. I triedtoclarify my point in my last message. I apologize if my previous message was so misleading. Regards, Tom-- Regards, --Keith Skype: skypedude1234 MSN Messenger: [email protected] Yahoo/AIM/Twitter: keithint1234 Facebook: http://facebook.com/keith.hinton1 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3087 - Release Date: 08/22/10 02:35:00-- Regards, --Keith Skype: skypedude1234 MSN Messenger: [email protected] Yahoo/AIM/Twitter: keithint1234 Facebook: http://facebook.com/keith.hinton1
