Hey Bruce,
Thanks for the Star Trek info. Glad to see Trekers are alive and well.
Here in Canada, on digital cable, which is what are co-operative housing
complex has, we have IFC Canada, which I guess is the Canadian equivalent
copy of this channel in Canada. I checked their schedule at:
http://www.ifctv.ca/Schedule/
, and there's no Star Trek on tonight, or any time this week, although the
site isn't that accessible, i.e., no tables for the days and hours; kind of
dumb, eh? Anyway, no probs. I'm currently watching "Spectre of the Gun,"
from the original series; I have MP3 copies of the movies, some in DVS, and
lots of episodes, since I have no need of video, and I'm pretty happy.
By the way, although I've never been a huge game-ster (although I used to
love Wheel of Fortune and Concentration on my old Tandy 1000 when I could
see, before Retinitis Pigmentosa closed in my visual field), I just finished
playing a level one adult game of your Battleship for the first time, and I
laughed with delight when I heard the guns firing and shells hitting or
missing. You are quite the joker, too, with your oohs and ahs, and Queen
song (We are the Champions). I managed to beat the computer in my first
attempt, which I'm feeling pretty good about. Actually, I downloaded and
installed all your four apps using AppGet, and I'm certainly going to use
the scripting insights from them. Thanks again for the info.
Live long and prosper, and, peace and long life,
Rod Hutton,
A Canadian Star Trekker
-----Original Message-----
From: BT
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 10:21 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Scripting, collaboration, and inspiration (smile)
Rod,
An off topic comment: Your quote, "A Canadian Star Trekker" and if you
are then turn to IFC or Independent Film channel, 298 Dish, and you will
have all the Star Trek movies episodes playing this week, including today.
Bruce
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: Scripting, collaboration, and inspiration (smile)
Hi, back to you, Chip,
I'm not going to write an epistle on the magnitude of Paradise Lost, like I
did last time (okay, I exaggerate a bit. Smile), and so I'm just going to
mention a few things and call it quits, to let us all get back to what burns
most brightly in each of us.
I guess what feels most important to say is that I've been going through
quite an emotionally-charged week since I joined the app and scripting
lists. The truth is, no matter how much I complain at times, I just love
writing apps, and I suppose I share the megalomania of the artist who wants
to see their art appreciated. Otherwise, why post apps which are cool, even
though you can admit to yourself that life would go on quite easily for the
universe if only you enjoyed your apps? Okay, there is that desire to help
people with your apps, and this is certainly a wonderful intention. But, if
I look at myself, I can't help but see how much pride is involved in sharing
my creations with others. We all need praise, and so this is a big part of
it. We should just admit it, eh?
But something has been going on in me since I first bought a PC in 1986 to
help me write essays in university. I don't know what it is, but my sense
is that it's just the fact that computers store and allow you to use data at
your whim. This is truly incredible, and I get goose-bumps every time I
think about it. I suppose it's about that dirty word called "control," but
it's only dirty when we hurt ourselves or others with our tools. In the
hands of virtuous people,these tools will, and are already, making the world
a better place.
In short, what's been going on in me is how to be part of the creative
effort of the GW Micro community, while staying human, taking time for
myself and my wife, and yet still finding time to write my cool inspired
apps which I want to share. I don't know what the future holds for me, for
GW Micro, and for the adaptive technology sphere in the next few years, but,
to quote Bob Dylan, ""the times they are achangin'." I want to help make
things better for us all, and I will certainly participate as much as I can,
but I came to see over the past day or so that I don't have to push myself
so hard. My family background, and the habits of society, have influenced
me to be way too hard on myself, but I have to cool it a bit, regroup, and
do what I can realistically do, while maintaining my equilibrium.
Boiling it all down, then, Chip, and all of us on these lists, I'll do the
best I can to help, with the time I have, and even if I can't help, my
energy will be going out to you.
Peace, loyalty, and good energy,
Rod Hutton
A canadian Star Trekker
-----Original Message-----
From: Chip Orange
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 3:01 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Scripting, collaboration, and inspiration (smile)
Hi Rod,
Ok, first I know I'm not the best teacher out there; nor am I the best
programmer. I was however just the first one who tried the idea of
tutorials (Johnny on the spot as they say). I appreciate very much your
words of appreciation, and also, your description of where you still need
help.
I really did think someone else would see those tutorials, and offer their
own versions (showing how it could be taught better, and filling in all the
gaps where I missed things).
Yes, I did hurry things along, giving some topics the lightest of attention,
just because I had relatively little time and a lot of people at all
differing levels, each person hoping to get the particular help they needed
to get started.
So, for beginners maybe someone by now has found an online course for
object-oriented programming that they can recommend (I do have a VBScript
book which tries to teach a bit of object-oriented programming; if anyone
wants a copy, write to me at [email protected] ), but maybe an online
course will be more thorough. Or maybe someone else is willing to take this
on and start their own set of tutorials for beginners?
If no one responds here Rod, maybe you should write to Access Technology
Institute (GW also announce the name of a similar company they were
partnering with, maybe they can mention it here as I've forgotten it). Both
of these companies publish tutorials especially for the blind; maybe one of
them will see some opportunity for developing a programming tutorial.
Rod, I know you want to develop without programming; I hate the way my next
sentence makes me sound (old!), but I've been a programmer for 30 years.
Many times my employer has sent me to classes for a software development
package we've purchased or leased, and it created code for you, by having
you enter something which wasn't exactly code for input. The idea is the
same as yours: save your programming team from hours and hours of tedious
development.
I stopped and counted 4 which I can remember right off the top of my head:
we abandoned all of them eventually. The reasons usually came down to
either, to generate really flexible code they became so complex themselves
that it was just like programming (only in some system no one else knew), or
they were so simple that they only generated the simplest of programs (so
not really useful in many situations).
The ones which ended up with some staying power (it seems to me) are the
ones which generate very specific types of code (such as the xml dialog code
generator from GW called UI Design). The general purpose ones all have gone
by the wayside.
One last reason is that these packages themselves take a lot of work to
develop and support; no one is going to do it without financial compensation
(it's just not something I've ever seen volunteers take on).
They do go at this problem slightly differently however; in order to make
things easier, they are always trying on a new programming language. These
are often done by volunteers, and they do get a lot of support for a while;
until people usually figure out they really aren't any better than what we
had before (here I'm thinking of Python, one of the hottest new languages of
the moment). The programming world seems to have decided that new languages
are a better idea than new code generators.
The other approach is to link your program modules with modules of others.
This has (in my opinion) lead to the biggest increase in productivity;
however, all the new programming languages are often incompatible with this
ability to join together, and so they start up their own set of modules to
be used by their programmers, and our efforts are split again.
For WE scripting however, you can link various programming modules together
via the SharedObjects object, and that is what my newest app does. I hope
it's yet another way in which it can be an example to others, because a good
deal of it's programming is split between two modules, so that those who
want to, can link to the "gps" module for all types of general
location-based support routines.
I'm afraid, if you want to help, you will have to learn to program. On the
other hand, it's not as hard as you think it is; everyone else is learning
it, you can too. If you have questions, just keep asking them (that's
really the key). Ask them here; and there's a blind programming list, and
so if your questions are beyond the scope of making something work for WE
scripting, then ask them there; and then there are dozens (if not hundreds)
of general programming lists and places where to ask questions. Somewhere
you can see your questions get answered or probably have already been
answered.
If you really don't want to program, but you want to help; find something
else which needs doing. Help create tutorials or documentation; help raise
money for someone's little startup effort to sell apps, I'm not sure how,
but there are plenty of needs out there; just not plenty of people to keep
on trying until they fill one of them.
You may have to pass the time learning to program until what you really want
to do comes along.
If no one turns up anything for beginning programmers to learn
object-oriented programming, and no one offers to do any further tutorials,
and other beginners feel like they really need more basic tutorials, then
I'll consider starting a supplementary set of beginning programming
tutorials. I'd rather though some other source be used, so that you're not
faced with my teaching deficiencies again! Really, you'll learn a lot more
when someone else covers the same ground (someone from your first teacher I
mean).
I hope this gets someone moving to do something.
Chip
-----Original Message-----
From: Rod Hutton [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 5:24 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Scripting, collaboration, and inspiration (smile)
Dear Chip,
Thanks for giving such a direct response to my post. Allow me to respond
in
kind.
My feeling is that people have not had enough time to learn scripting
because, even though I'm pretty bright, I found it very difficult to learn
enough about programming to follow the tutorials GW and you have done.
Besides, it's not just programming, but object-oriented programming, which
is another deeper level of consciousness to enter. I still have to stop
and
think before I consider how to work with an object, whether it's a
property,
method or event I want to work with, and what about those objects which
have properties which work like methods? It is really hard-going to get
things done in writing an app. Even the WE Script Framework and UI Design
don't have much, if any, documentation, and, were it not for your
tutorials, I
wouldn't even know that you have to put your groups of controls inside of
another group in order for a dialog to take shape. To be honest, those two
apps need upgrading, and I envision an environment for app creation where
an app could be built simply by connecting programming modules together,
thereby minimizing the necessity of laborious hard-coding. This is what
the
"Automate" software I mentioned before makes possible. At the very least,
I don't really think it would be as onerous a task as you envision for app
creation via breaking up the process into several pieces and then joining
them together. You have to remember, Chip, that you are a programmer by
profession, while many of us, me included, are not. I learned what I know
pretty much by accident, namely, by wanting to use certain devices, like
infrared remote controls; indeed, this is how I learned, around 10 years
ago,
about using "post" and "send" messages to control software. In fact,
although I love the fact that I can now understand how to write an app, I
don't want to write apps. Rather, I want to get things done with my PC. If
I
could get the jobs I want done without writing apps, I would. The problem
is
that nobody wants to help anyone to create a PC environment specifically
geared to a particular user's personal needs and preferences without
requesting a huge financial commitment even before work is begun. As the
Wikinomics book I mentioned to you discusses, even though Linux is open-
source and free, companies are starting up all the time to serve customers
who need their Linux environments configured to their particular business
needs. In short, the future growth potential in our global society is to
be
found in customer support. That being said, the blind community is made up
of customers with a unique need for software which enables them to use
software which is usually not speech-friendly. And, blind people are
typically financially marginalized. So, I see it as my personal quest to
empower those in need with the tools they need to surivive in this digital
world. However, to this end, I don't want to write blind people apps,
thereby forcing them to use my apps to do things the way I designed them,
unless, of course, they are okay with my work, at least for a while, until
they
create their own. Rather, I would prefer to give them a crash course in
"empowerment through the power of personal task accomplishment," that
is, give them the tools they need to build their own tools. I have to say,
Chip, without grossing you out here, I really love you for doing the
course-
work you did teaching scripting, smile. It certainly set me up for life.
But, in
your lessons, there was a lot of knowledge you assumed your students had
which I did not, and which I am still learning. I believe there is a
serious
need for an introductory course in scripting, which I may be interested in
being involved with, to teach students the presuppositions upon which
vbScript programming, in general, and object-oriented programming, in
particular, are based. In fact, I am still working on wrapping my head
around
this body of knowledge myself, so I am a little wary about how someone
should present this knowledge. I will say this, however: if I ever learn
all the
stuff I need to know to be as good a programmer as you are Chip, I will be
able to teach it from the bottom to the top. The reason why is simple: I
am
sensitive to the presuppositions I am drawing upon when I communicate
with people, and I am continually touching base with people, asking them
to repeat what they heard me say, so we pace each other. This makes me
more of a one-on-one teacher, and, therefore, perhaps not the best person
to lead a class like you did. But, I could certainly serve as a tutor of
individuals.
Well, Chip, my friend, I guess by now you see where I'm coming from. As I
worked through all of my thoughts in creating this response, I guess I
have
come to realize that I see myself more as an inspirer of the quest for
knowledge, rather than as a member of a collaborative team, and, Chip, I
totally sympathize with your reluctance to set up an app-project team. I
am
in awe of your creation of your GPS masterpiece; it sounds like an
incredible
tool. It's not something that I would ever use, given my home-based
lifestyle, but I can certainly see how the mobile blind user would love
it,
especially the gadgeteers among them. Good for you! As for me, I am
blowing with the winds of inspiration, working on a couple of apps,
centred
around Winamp. The most important one is a global app which works
perfectly on my system, but it uses a command-line utility called CLAmp to
control Winamp. to launch, control, create bookmarks in, and move
between music album folders within, multiple instances of Winamp, with
all these instances running simultaneously. It's funny that you mentioned
how we learn coding through reading other programmers' code, because I
learned how to write the vbScript SsendMessage syntax for controlling
Winamp by reading Jeff Bishop's app code. Thanks from the bottom of my
heart, Jeff, if you're reading this! Big grin. I figure I'm now well on
the way
to putting the app in a shape where I need no longer rely on the command-
line utility to control my Winamp. But, Chip, here we go: now I have to
learn
how to use INI files to store my bookmarks, whereas,before, I would simply
use a DOS pipe command to create text files of each bookmark; in other
words, Chip, some boring coding work to do here. Oh well, I guess I
shouldn't complain too much. And then, there is the involved task of
creating a complex dialog to create and maintain the multiple instances of
Winamp; but, thanks to you, Chip, that should be a breeze, although the
event handler should be a miniature nightmare. Big smile. Ah well, c'est
la
vie. Such are the trials of gadgeteers, eh? Smile.
I shall sign off for now, Chip, wishing you a great week.
Peace and long life,
Rod Hutton,
A Canadian Star Trekker
