I kind of agree. Probably 90% of the people we know & work with are non-cyclists, and I think it is fair to say that nearly 100% of them are either anoyed at their progress being impeded by cyclists or nervous about going around them or both, particularly on busier roadways. However, I am apprehensive that legislation such as this might open the door (or floodgate in the worst case scenario) to more stringent and restrictive laws, and potentially give lisence to motorists to be more enraged if we aren't "obeying the rules" or (hopefully not) "teach us a lesson" if we don't. The other negative consequence, which motorists probably don't realize, is that if you string everyone out 1 or 2 abreast, it's a much longer line to get by. Nevertheless, it is always wise to consider ourselves ambassadors for road cycling and try to create good will (and hopefully support) amongst motorists by being courteous and taking whatever steps we can not to inconvienience anyone on "their roads". Restricting ourselves to 2 abreast doesn't seem too much to ask. Hopefully, an exception could be made for very lightly traveled roadways were spirited pack antics and "free play" would be better tolerated (at least until a car is sited) How about folks who have lived in Portland or Seattle and other more cycle savvy cities, what do they do ?
_____ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Berry T Stevens Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 10:09 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Gyros: 15357] FW: [jlows] Fwd: Proposed NC law to restrict/kill group rides I'm new to road riding here, having moved from the San Farncisco Bay Area 6 months ago. I did Mike's G 1 ride this past Sunday & noticed some differences in roadie etiquette here that might be relevant to this situation. In CA, riding single file is the norm & you will be chided by other cyclists if you ride two abreast. The point is that riding other than single file creates a problem for motor vehicles atttempting to pass & poses a risk to the cyclist. On a more subtle level it irritates motorists even if there is no problem. Riding single file shows awareness of, and respect for, other road users & lowers tension & frustration. The bills author, the retired car dealer, may have had a lifetime of hearing customers bitch out bicyclists & the bill is his attempt to do something about it. There was the "Noon Ride" in CA which was mostly Cat 1 & Cat 2 road racers, every week day. A testosterone drenched ride which ran stop signs & got very aggressive with motorists that did not follow the Noon Ride's idea of proper car driving. It created a highly antagonistic environment between motorists & ALL cyclists. That's a bit extreme, but demonstrates how roadie bike manners can impact or create anti-bike sentiment in the motoring public's mind. I would suggest that Raleigh Gyros strongly encourage all riders on all rides to ride single file at all times & to bend over backwards to be courteous to motorists at all times. From what I've seen the motorists around here are very courteous to cyclists. We should respond in kind. My .02 Berry -----Original Message----- From: Tom Fissel Sent: May 12, 2010 5:11 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Gyros: 15342] FW: [jlows] Fwd: Proposed NC law to restrict/kill group rides >From all the chatter I've read in the last few days from different google groups, it sounds as though this has been pulled before going to vote - for now. ----- Original Message ----- From: Keil Wurl <mailto:[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 3:42 AM Subject: Re: [Gyros: 15341] FW: [jlows] Fwd: Proposed NC law to restrict/kill group rides Here's a link to NC House Bill 1451 filed back in April 2009 named Bicycle Protection Act. I don't think this is law (yet) ??? It has a paragraph indicating riders can not ride more than two abreast. http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/BillLookUp/BillLookUp.pl?Session=2009%20%20 <http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/BillLookUp/BillLookUp.pl?Session=2009%20%20&; BillID=h1451> &BillID=h1451 As a bill passes through it various stages, where does a citizen find the proposed (edits) to a bill? It seems that the email thread below is discussing proposed edits to the original bill ? Sam Quattrocchi wrote: There was an article in the N&O this morning regarding this topic, but it didn't sound so onerous. Sam Quattrocchi _____ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of mary dorsey Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:44 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Gyros: 15339] FW: [jlows] Fwd: Proposed NC law to restrict/kill group rides Have any of you all heard of this piece of legislation? I haven't but wanted to forward it on. Perhaps someone knows more than I. mary _____ Subject: Proposed NC law to restrict/kill group rides Matt's mention of the Tuesday ride prompts me to note that fans of that ride, as well as the P ride or just about any group ride should have their eye on a piece of legislation that just got proposed in the NC house. You can read the text of the proposed amendment here: http://blogs. <http://blogs.newsobserver.com/crosstown/legislation-would-boost-motorists-l everage-with-tow-truckers-and-with-bicyclists?storylink=misearch#ixzz0naAfLM gg> newsobserver.com/crosstown/legislation-would-boost-motorists-leverage-with-t ow-truckers-and-with-bicyclists?storylink=misearch#ixzz0naAfLMgg This law would kill most group rides. It makes it illegal for cyclists to: - ride more than two abreast, even temporarily (like dropping off the front) and even if the road is totally empty - ride more than one abreast when there is faster car traffic on the road. If you're on the front, you're there for good, and if fast cyclists encounter slow cyclists, they *can't* pass, so that cars *can* - "impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic," thereby letting us know what the bill's authors think of bike traffic -- we're unnormal and unreasonable For the first time *ever* in NC vehicle law, the amendment would: - create a special sub-class of vehicle users, namely cyclists, with more limited rights than other classes. The rest of the vehicle code treats all road users the same, with the same rights and responsibilities. - revoke cyclists' rights to the full lane when needed, with no qualifications mentioned for safety, lane conditions, whether we're about to take a left turn, or any of the other nuances in similar parts of the vehicle code. - place the responsibility to ensure that a pass is safe on the overtaken vehicle (the cyclist) rather than the overtaking one - penalize vehicle operators (cyclists) for their behavior as a group rather than individuals: cars aren't required to make sure that other cars follow the speed limits, but cyclists would be required to make sure that other riders move over, or the entire group is punished Some of the things the amendment outlines are, indeed, examples of good road courtesy on the part of cyclists, but there's a reason we don't usually try to legislate courtesy -- legislation is too heavy-handed a tool for this application. What we're really seeing, it seems to me, is an ignorance on behalf of the bill's author (a retired auto dealer) to acknowledge that two- or even three-abreast often *is* the safest and easiest way -- for cars as well as cyclists -- to co-exist on the road. Instead of trying to understand that by entering into the cyclists' position on the road, they're trying to legislate us off the road. 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