Hi Tom
Good questions all...
My personal opinion: True 25mm is... terminal. There are very few making 25mm
historicals, and those that do are hawking old lines. Even fewer in SF. The
28mm has superceded 25mm for almost two decades now. I have a hard time
picturing someone who is starting out choosing 25. I have seen a number of
suggestions on TMP for GZG to switch to the more contemporary 28, but that is
not in Jon's plan.
I believe Jon has mentioned he will get back to 25mm at some time, but the fact
is he has a pretty strong 25mm catalog already and is building a 15mm line from
scratch, so it seems only natural that's where his focus will be for a while.
I think in a lot of ways, we are all struggling with the profusion of scales.
15 years ago I had only 28mm and 6mm, now I primarily game in 15 (for the
reasons you stated, but I was switching from GW to GZG, so the new scale was
not a hassle), but I still game in 6, 28, 40, and 54mm. I have bought a limited
amount of GZG 25mm, the figures because I wanted larger versions for display,
and a number of vehicles as they can still work with 28mm.
So where does this leave you:
- Sounds like you have more figures than Jon has in stock. You can put on huge
games and supply both sides - that's good - you are not dependent on finding an
opponent with 25mm.
- You do miss out on the excitment of new releases in your scale, you will have
to continue to adapt toys and 28mm vehicles (fess up - that's fun!). Couldn't
some of those 15mm GZG tanks make some great remote vehicles for 25? Couldn't
those 15mm heavy weapons make great weapons mounted on a jeep?
- Many manufacturers follow the GW model and roll their entire product line
every couple years. GZG doesn't do that and most of us true believers think
that's a good thing. But it does mean there must be some reasonable limit on
the size of any particular line Jon carries otherwise it becomes an impossible
thing to manage. At some point new intros must stop/drop to a trickle. I think
you NEED a new scale. Really. You often run big games, think about 6mm - GZG
and Brigade can keep your credit card busy for a couple years there!
Best of luck!
Martin
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom B
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 6:52 PM
Subject: [GZG] 25mm a dead scale? (For GZG and others?)
For those who know me (I can already sense the flinching...), you may know
I've been at this GZG thing for a year or ten now. For those who've seen some
of the games at ECC, they may recall I have a fair collection of GZG 25mm
stuff. I think my current count runs somewhere in excess of 1200 25mm figures,
most of whom are GZG. I think (given the boxes of unassembled resins I just
found), I likely have 50 GZG 25mm vehicles. Then on top of that we can throw in
some TAU vehicles, toys from Walmart, DLD vehicles around a dozen in number,
Ainsty/Denizen Ventaurians and mid-tech Marines, Ral Partha Battletroops, WEG
Star Wars, new Star Wars plastics, some GW space marines, and so on... and one
can imagine I'm pretty heavily invested into 25mm. By dint of the work of my
superior painter pal, most now have paint on them. The total investment is
probably well over $10K in 25mm stuff at today's prices, if you count my
seriously discounted painting fees. It was accumulated over the last twenty
years.
So that's my preamble. One can understand why I might not want to just unload
all of this on E-bay.
And now, I see GZG is shifting off into 15mm. I haven't seen much of anything
new in 25mm lines from Jon for some time. No new vehicles, no new figures or
figure lines to speak of - last I recall was probably the Phalons or a few
individual figures in the street level ranges. Lots of new stuff in 15mm and
nothing to speak of in 25mm.
Old Crow has produced some nice 25mm and DLD did/does, but I'm not sure
they're not in hiatus (which is too bad, because David does excellent work).
But not much from GZG - still selling existing stuff, but I own pretty much all
of it in profusion.
I've been a good customer of Jon, of KR, and of other people stocking Jon's
wares over the years. I'd like to continue to be a good customer for GZG. But
I'm pretty much stuck into 25mm and opening out a new 15mm range makes marginal
sense. And yet, that's where the market is. Brigade and GZG and others are
making 15mm galore.
Don't get me wrong, I see the advantages: Cheaper figures, cheaper shipping,
more bang for your buck, closer to WYSIWYG in stargrunt, let's you play in CM
if you want, easier to paint to a decent standard, lots of toys in the same
scale, etc.
But that doesn't change the fact I'm like a Dinosaur at La Brea. I've got
both feet planted firmly in the 25mm Tar Pit and no signs of getting out
anytime soon. The fact I too would buy 15mm if starting anew today is utterly
irrelevant.
So, to my questions:
1) Is there anyone else who is still a 25mm player? Are there many of us
left? Is anyone choosing to buy 25mm over 15mm nowadays when buying new stuff?
2) Are most 25mm players biting the bullet and migrating to 15mm? Or
resisting that transition?
3) For Jon T/GZG: Is there any practical likelihood of more 25mm models
coming out? Does it make any sort of business sense? Would a number of 25mm
players coming out of the woodwork and asking for some new 25mm sculpts affect
that decision?
I'm just curious if there are a bunch of potential 25mm consumers sitting
quietly out there or if I'm literally the last of a dying breed. If there are a
bunch of people in 25mm collections that intend to stay there, perhaps there
might be enough market incentive to convince Jon to do some more 25mm stuff. I
don't necessarily suspect this is the case, but I thought I'd put the questions
out there and see. I'd rather send Jon my money than a lot of manufacturers for
a variety of reasons, but if there isn't new product I'm interested in buying
coming out in a scale I use, that is a bit problematic.
I certainly understand the move to 15mm in the hobby, but I'm like a steam
train in the age of the electric locomotive....
Thomas B.
--
"Now, I go to spread happiness to the rest of the station. It is a terrible
responsibility but I have learned to live with it."
Londo, A Voice in the Wilderness, Part I
"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like
administering medicine to the dead." -- Thomas Paine
Thomas Paine
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