Not that I am arguing th validity of your points, I
think though some could be qualified. Both of us have
a losing battle trying to truly prove our points of
view, so take it for what it's worth.
> With high fashion (of England France and Spain)
> there was a very definite
> tendancy to much waist reduction.
There is no doubt that someone somewhere, and likely
quantities of them in high fashion circles got into
tight lacing in the period. Extreme body modification
is a curious human trait that transcends time. I would
hazard however that the masses were not in the habit
of tight lacing. Corsetry, at it's core purpose is to
mould the squishy bits into a pleasing shape. Some
people just take that a step further than others.
The ideal was as
> extreme (in it's way) as
> the ideal in the late Victorian era!
<snips links>
> Of course most of these are stylised, but that's the
> point.
Therein lies the problem with portrait paintings -
they are at best someone else's interpretation of
reality, and worse yet, the sitter might have
requested they not paint in that double chin or hairy
wart on their cheek. ;-) What you suggest is akin to
what goes on today - photoshop takes care of all the
model's sins, they are printed to look like reality,
then sent to us to swallow whole. However within the
context we are talking about, it's impossible to check
for the real cellulite on their thighs. ;-)
At least two of those paintings you had posted looks
very much to me like girls, not women, either. The
last two in particular. I would very much like to see
the DOB of the sitter against the date of the
painting. Also too, I think running the rest through a
program that could enhance details might just show the
illusion going on - a lot of shadow casting down the
sides of the torso.
The ideal was
> this extreme shape (for various reasons of art and
> fashion.)
I think there is a perception thing going on too.
Illusion may make it appear that they are severely
tightened, however a good taylor that knows how to
fool the eye can do just as much. My Venetian gown
does just that. I am not even wearing a corset, yet I
look like I am *and* I even look like I have a waist!
A not so bad one, at that. ;-) Mostly because I have a
long point at centre front and the waist at the sides
have been raised 2" over my natural, further
artificially drawing the eye to the centre of my body.
<snips many quotes> A mix
> of fact and fiction to make it sound worse than it
> was.
Exactly.
> That she be so bombe-thin, yet she crosse like seems
> four squaire"
My point again about the age of the women. Most girls
are twiggy and could pull off looking like they have
been tight laced. Also too naturally thin women always
show more extreme body shaping than better-padded
ones.
> It's hard to compare, but the method of optical
> illusion (broader shoulders
> and skirts) with fitted stays is very similar in
> many periods.
Carefully designed embellishment can achieve much too.
Combine that with large shoulders and huge hemlines,
and the waist is bound to appear small. What needs to
be done but is largely impossible to do, is take a
corset known to be owned by a given individual, then
have that individual's remains examined, and
essentially "rebuild" them virtually and see where the
differences lie. This of course would be a singular
example and *very* hard to take a useful sampling to
prove anything either way, but it would be a
benchmark. It would be a very expensive, if not very
interesting experiment.
Kathy
Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or
barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert
ItÂ’s never too late to be who you might have been.
-George Eliot
For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is
an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to
receive it.
-Ivan Panin
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