Thanks for the many responses to my query on color perception and 'mutations'. This has been very interesting to me with examples of both fibers and painting/printing copies. Through the years I have had customers who come armed with a picture from which they expect a costume copy. Trying to tell them that they do not have a 'fair print' for reproduction purposes, especially regarding color, has truly been problematical. If it is a color that was not available for the time period, there is usually fuss and bother. Lately, I do not mind telling them to pick a 'right color' or find someone else to do up their creation. Sigh, Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Historical Costume" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 11:39 AM Subject: Re: Perception of color, Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth
> At 16:01 21/02/2006, you wrote: > >Fabric dyes vary in their resistance to color > >change. Some dyes change color, some just fade, > >some do both. It also depends upon the fabric > >itself; in my experience cottons and linens tend > >to hold their colors better than silks. Wools > >have held their colors well. I had some acetate > >plaid taffeta that changed color while stored in > >a dark closet under fairly constant climatic > >conditions. So synthetics, in my experience, > >have the worst survival characteristics. > > > >Pigments for painting are generally minerals, so > >the colors have a better chance to survive > >intact, although where some organic pigments are > >used, they can fade/change just like > >fabric. There are some minerals that do change > >color due to chemical reactions with air, though > >modern analytic techniques can determine what > >the original mineral was and restore the proper > >color. The usual reason for color changes in > >portraits are the accumulation of dust, soot, > >etc., on the surface and earlier attempts to > >protect the painting with varnish, which often darkens with age. > > According to QEWU "The deep pink gown is > fashionably cut and the material is described in > the records of Edward Vl's collection of pictures > "....the ladye Elizabeth her grace with a booke > in her hande her gowne like crymsen clothe of > golde with workes". Just o confuse matters you > understand. When I was at college we went to see > the portraits at Windsor, and this was always > referred to as the "Pink Princess", which tends > to make me think that we all "saw" it as a pink dress. > > Suzi > > >>Hi, > >>Ah yes, and the purple wheelfarthingale dress i > >>made for Castle Selsø has turned brownish grey :-) > >>Anyway it was a dupioni silk, and they dont > >>hold their colours very long. Dress was exhibited in a room with morning sun. > >> > >>Bjarne > >> > >> > >>>Re the perception of color in these portraits: > >>>For you who do dyeing (Natural or otherwise) did the color of dyed textiles > >>>of the past change because of exposure to sunlight or was there some > >>>chemical element that was not always stable and would mute or even mutate > >>>over a period of time. In the present world, I have seen color changes on > >>>bolts and even garments that have never seen the light of day go entirely > >>>from one color to another. > >>>For instance, there is a certain grey from the middle of the 20th C, that > >>>seems to change to pink within a 40 yr. span. My daughter"s pale blue > >>>taffeta promgown from the 1990s is now a sort of interesting pale rose. I > >>>have a bolt of rayon velvet from the'70s that is presently an interesting > >>>shade of lavender. > >>> > >>>In reference to these portraits under discussion, might the colors on the > >>>canvas have changed, or the garments themselves have been 'changeable'? > >>> > >>>kathleen > >>> > >>> > >>>>Misremembering happens to all of us! <g> Seriously, though, it could be > >>>two > >>>>different copies--I know that some of the portraits of Elizabeth I (as > >>>>queen) and her sister, Mary, were done multipe times--there's that great > >>>>chapter in QEUnlocked that talks about them. So it could be that, > >>>>especially since so many of our details are similar. And maybe it > >>>explains > >>>>why some of the reproductions seem so pink and others more orange? I don't > >>>>know about "yours"--we only had time for the National Gallery of Art > >>>(which > >>>>was on its last day of a Truly Cool Exhibit on Fabric in Portraits), and > >>>>didn't make it over to the Portrait Gallery. Well, maybe we could have, > >>>if > >>>>I hadn't been making a complete pig of myself in the bookstore. <weg> > >>>>I've seen monochrome embroidery done in red in a couple of portraits in my > >>>>books, and a little of it in the Textile Rooms at the V&A. A friend of > >>>mine > >>>>says it's known as "morisco" work (spelling optional at this time of the > >>>>evening ;o) I *think* I've got a copy of a painting of Mary I with red > >>>>embroidery somewhere. I *think.* (sorry...bad case of chocolate cravings > >>>>paired with knitting fatigue from the Knitting Olympics! LOL!) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > > >>>> > > When did you see it in the Portrait > >>>> Gallery? I was in England in > > 2002, > >>>>and > >>>> > > saw the painting at Windsor. The dress was screaming pink, no orange > >>>to > >>>> > > it > >>>> > > at all. > >>>> > > The forepart and undersleeves are made of a gold pile/cream base "cut > >>>>and > >>>> > > voided" velvet, although I suspect that the pile, in this case, is > >>>gold > >>>> > > thread (looks distinctly metallic). > >>>> > > --Sue, wondering if there are two of them out there.... > >>>> > > >>>> > Hmmm...maybe I was mistaken. I know I saw the Princess Mary Tudor > >>>> > portrait while I was there. I thought I saw the Elizabeth one, too. > >>>> > > >>>> > But seeing the Mary Tudor portrait in person was pretty cool because I > >>>> > discovered that her chemise had redwork on > >>>> the cuffs! I hadn't heard > of > >>>> > redwork before then and the photos I had seen of the painting didn't > >>>have > >>>> > enough detail to show it. Very cool! > >>>> > > >>>> > Diana > >>>> > > >>>> > www.RenaissanceFabrics.net > >>>> > "Everything for the Costumer" > >>>> > > >>>> > "Become the change you want to see in the world." > >>>> > --Ghandi > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > [email protected] > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list [email protected] http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
