Thanks for the many responses to my query on color perception and
'mutations'.  This has been very interesting to me with examples of both
fibers and painting/printing copies.  Through the years I have had customers
who come armed with a picture from which they expect a costume copy. Trying
to tell them that they do not have a 'fair print' for reproduction purposes,
especially regarding color, has truly been problematical. If it is a color
that was not available for the time period, there is usually fuss and
bother. Lately, I do not mind telling them to pick a 'right color' or find
someone else to do up their creation.
Sigh,
Kathleen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Suzi Clarke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Historical Costume" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: Perception of color, Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth


> At 16:01 21/02/2006, you wrote:
> >Fabric dyes vary in their resistance to color
> >change.  Some dyes change color, some just fade,
> >some do both.  It also depends upon the fabric
> >itself; in my experience cottons and linens tend
> >to hold their colors better than silks.  Wools
> >have held their colors well.  I had some acetate
> >plaid taffeta that changed color while stored in
> >a dark closet under fairly constant climatic
> >conditions.  So synthetics, in my experience,
> >have the worst survival characteristics.
> >
> >Pigments for painting are generally minerals, so
> >the colors have a better chance to survive
> >intact, although where some organic pigments are
> >used, they can fade/change just like
> >fabric.  There are some minerals that do change
> >color due to chemical reactions with air, though
> >modern analytic techniques can determine what
> >the original mineral was and restore the proper
> >color.  The usual reason for color changes in
> >portraits are the accumulation of dust, soot,
> >etc., on the surface and earlier attempts to
> >protect the painting with varnish, which often darkens with age.
>
> According to QEWU "The deep pink gown is
> fashionably cut and the material is described in
> the records of Edward Vl's collection of pictures
> "....the ladye Elizabeth her grace with a booke
> in her hande her gowne like crymsen clothe of
> golde with workes". Just o confuse matters you
> understand. When I was at college we went to see
> the portraits at Windsor, and this was always
> referred to as the "Pink Princess", which tends
> to make me think that we all "saw" it as a pink dress.
>
> Suzi
>
> >>Hi,
> >>Ah yes, and the purple wheelfarthingale dress i
> >>made for Castle Selsø has turned brownish grey :-)
> >>Anyway it was a dupioni silk, and they dont
> >>hold their colours very long. Dress was exhibited in a room with morning
sun.
> >>
> >>Bjarne
> >>
> >>
> >>>Re the perception of color in these portraits:
> >>>For you who do dyeing (Natural or otherwise) did the color of dyed
textiles
> >>>of the past change because of exposure to sunlight or was there some
> >>>chemical element that was not always stable and would mute or even
mutate
> >>>over a period of time.  In the present world, I have seen color changes
on
> >>>bolts and even garments that have never seen the light of day go
entirely
> >>>from one color to another.
> >>>For instance, there is a certain grey from the middle of the 20th C,
that
> >>>seems to change to pink within a 40 yr. span.  My daughter"s pale blue
> >>>taffeta promgown from the 1990s is now a sort of interesting pale rose.
I
> >>>have a bolt of rayon velvet from the'70s that is presently an
interesting
> >>>shade of lavender.
> >>>
> >>>In reference to these portraits under discussion, might the colors on
the
> >>>canvas have changed, or the garments themselves have been 'changeable'?
> >>>
> >>>kathleen
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Misremembering happens to all of us! <g> Seriously, though, it could
be
> >>>two
> >>>>different copies--I know that some of the portraits of Elizabeth I (as
> >>>>queen) and her sister, Mary, were done multipe times--there's that
great
> >>>>chapter in QEUnlocked that talks about them.  So it could be that,
> >>>>especially since so many of our details are similar.  And maybe it
> >>>explains
> >>>>why some of the reproductions seem so pink and others more orange? I
don't
> >>>>know about "yours"--we only had time for the National Gallery of Art
> >>>(which
> >>>>was on its last day of a Truly Cool Exhibit on Fabric in Portraits),
and
> >>>>didn't make it over to the Portrait Gallery.  Well, maybe we could
have,
> >>>if
> >>>>I hadn't been making a complete pig of myself in the bookstore. <weg>
> >>>>I've seen monochrome embroidery done in red in a couple of portraits
in my
> >>>>books, and a little of it in the Textile Rooms at the V&A.  A friend
of
> >>>mine
> >>>>says it's known as "morisco" work (spelling optional at this time of
the
> >>>>evening ;o) I *think* I've got a copy of a painting of Mary I with red
> >>>>embroidery somewhere.  I *think.*  (sorry...bad case of chocolate
cravings
> >>>>paired with knitting fatigue from the Knitting Olympics! LOL!)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> >
> >>>> > > When did you see it in the Portrait
> >>>> Gallery? I was in England in > > 2002,
> >>>>and
> >>>> > > saw the painting at Windsor.  The dress was screaming pink, no
orange
> >>>to
> >>>> > > it
> >>>> > > at all.
> >>>> > > The forepart and undersleeves are made of a gold pile/cream base
"cut
> >>>>and
> >>>> > > voided" velvet, although I suspect that the pile, in this case,
is
> >>>gold
> >>>> > > thread (looks distinctly metallic).
> >>>> > > --Sue, wondering if there are two of them out there....
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Hmmm...maybe I was mistaken.  I know I saw the Princess Mary Tudor
> >>>> > portrait while I was there.  I thought I saw the Elizabeth one,
too.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > But seeing the Mary Tudor portrait in person was pretty cool
because I
> >>>> > discovered that her chemise had redwork on
> >>>> the cuffs!  I hadn't heard > of
> >>>> > redwork before then and the photos I had seen of the painting
didn't
> >>>have
> >>>> > enough detail to show it.   Very cool!
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Diana
> >>>> >
> >>>> > www.RenaissanceFabrics.net
> >>>> > "Everything for the Costumer"
> >>>> >
> >>>> > "Become the change you want to see in the world."
> >>>> > --Ghandi
>
>
>
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