Someone refered to this hat as the "Fram Filter Hat". It's the only one I've
seen like that.
Sleeves... is this an outer gown or a kirtle? I see the attached lacing for
the lower sleeves.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Suzi Clarke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Historical Costume" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 4:54 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth}
At 09:11 01/03/2006, you wrote:
At 01:59 PM 2/28/2006, you wrote:
I don't know what a short sleeved kirtle looks like.
Hmmmm... maybe I am putting 2+3 and getting 7 here, but could this image
below be an example of a short sleeved kirtle with an attached sleeve?
http://www.morganlibrary.org/collections/collections.asp?id=60
zoom in close to the far left of the image. It is a woman working whacking
something. She's wearing green dress with short upper sleeves, and a
pinkish colored lower sleeve. She's holding a cudgel? or something in her
hands.
Granted, it is a working woman who is from Belgium, not England. She's
also not a noble woman, but could this be an example of something similar
to what we can't see under Tudor gowns?
Kimiko
She who may be grasping at straws in the early morning hours.
http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/m/michele/index.html
(A Hungarian working in Ferrara mid 15th century)
And there are several short sleeved garments in paintings by Rogier van
der Weyden, c. 1450, one of which clearly shows the pin holding the
sleeve on, although this may actually be from the shoulder strap.
http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/weyden/magdalen.jpg
(The Altarpiece of the Seven Sacraments,
http://www.shop-com.co.uk/amos/cc/main/prod/act/21946059/ccsyn/261
You will have to enlarge this - she is the figure on the bottom right of
the centre panel.
The Descent from the Cross (huge, in the Prado in Madrid. She is wearing
what looks like a gown made from oblongs of wool - quite fascinating- I
spent ages in front of it and still haven't worked it out!). (Also called
the Deposition from the Cross)
http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/weyden/decent.jpg
I realise these are not 16th century, but short sleeves kirtles were
obviously worn earlier, so is it possibly that the fashion could have
continued in the later period?
Suzi
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