----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan B. Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
So how is "a garment with a stiffened bodice" different from a boned
kirtle, and how is that *fundamentally* different from a corset? (aside from the obvious thing that a corset in and of itself doesn't
have an attached skirt -- which is why I said "fundamentally")

Well, it's different, and it's not. Having a separate garment devoted to the stiffening IS an important distinction; think of it in terms of bras. Before the bra, there was a garment that provided bust support, but that bust support was only a part of a whole garment. So are bras different than corsets? Well, yes, and no. Same basic end; very different means.

While some of the bodices were boned, they seem to have been boned very lightly until the last third of the 16thC; most common would have been just a busk. Far more common than boning would have been the use of a slightly stiffer fabric, as with the parchet in the inventory I quoted, or at most buckram: "...some by wastes of wyre at the paste wyfes hand." So, though they are stiffened, the stiffening is pretty minor; the stiffening effect of the bodice isn't likely to be enough to even warrant being made into a separate garment.

Also, the skirt is an integral part of the garment not only in terms of being actually sewn onto it, but in terms of the function of the whole garment. This whole garment was used to provide the right fundamental shape for the style; that style included a firm body, and it included full skirts and the illusion of large hips. When farthingales come into fashion, the kirtle or petticoat worn under it performs the important function of protecting your legs from drafts. Attaching that skirt to the bodice is important in functional terms; you want both the form-changing bodice part and the leg-warming skirt part as close to your body as possible, because they work best and are most comfortable that way.

The whole garment is a solution to a specific body-shaping problem; a problem which has been solved in different ways over the centuries, and which must be solved in different ways the desired body shape changes over time. In the 13thC, the solution was breast-wrapping; in the 14th, it was the GFD; in the 15th, it was both a later version of the GFD and an early version of the bodice-skirt kirtle; in the early 16th, it was the vasquine and farthingale; in the late 16th, it was the payre of bodyes and farthingale. In the 17th it was high waist lines then boned bodices; in the 18th it was stays and panniers; in the 19th it was corsets and hoops; in the 20th & 21st it is bras and bike shorts. So are they all fundamentally different? Yes. No. Both! Same basic end; very different means.

-E House
(Help! I've been answering emails from various sources for 5 and a half hours! Must stop while still have brain!)
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