I was just going through some stacked-up e-mail -- I tend to catch up in fits and spurts, so sometimes miss things. Plus I have dial-up, so anything that requires lots of image-heavy downloads gets set aside till I have *time*.
Anyway, Susan posted lots of picture links. I haven't looked at all of them but of the ones I did see -- yes, as you indicated, lots of Flemish 15th-16th c. fantasy. I took so many pictures of these sorts of weird dresses in Belgium! In addition to the fact that they're all on religious/historic/symbolic figures, it's also useful to note that you rarely find two that are anywhere near alike, which makes it even more obvious that these aren't meant to represent fashionable wear! The "regular" clothing (on portraits, and in genre scenes) tends to be cast-of-a-mold with relatively small differences in features. Rule of thumb: The rarer it is, the less likely to be real. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/hitomi_gehrig/14th%20Century/Roncolo6.gif > > I thought that the dress has a front panel because of the white dots running > > down the "seam". > > I thought that they were buttons! The white dots are almost certainly buttons. I have no idea why she's all stripey, but from her headgear, I wouldn't lay bets that she's a real person, so I'd withhold judgement on this one without knowong the context. Of course, if she's Italian, there's no telling. Another rule of thumb: It's a bad idea to try to reproduce a costume from an artwork without knowing something about the artwork. > Virgin with Saints (Barbara & Catherine of Alexandria) > http://www.wga.hu/art/b/benson/lou_135.jpg Not too weird, these. Catherine's outfit pays lip service to the by-now-required surcote but still is an attempt to make her look within range of the accepted fashion. The Barbara is quite passable but very rich as befits the princess she is; the fur oversleeves might be over the top. Headdress is all symbolic on both. > and one of my personal favorites -- dig the pink "3 piece suit" on the > saint in the right panel > http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/zunk_fl/16_paint/2/05adorat.jpg I think that's meant to be a dress that's hitched up at the waist/hip and bloused over. Still dripping with fantasy/foreign elements. > Elijah & the Widow of Zarapeth -- dig the sleeves > http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/zunk_fl/16_paint/1/04adora2.jpg I think she's pretty realistic. I've seen those sleeves elsewhere. I think I saw this one in person, or one much like it, and took pictures -- not for the sleeve, but for the fitting at the back waist. IIRC, there's a horizontal seam at the top of the pleats, but it sort of comes out of nowhere -- it doesn't go beyond the pleated area. I would have to find the slides to confirm that, though. This is not the only gown I saw that on; it's some sort of technique for fitting over the rump. I can think of two or three ways to do it. > again symbolic/allegrical, but you got 4 "normal" gowns and that odd > thing in the lower left > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Paintings/flemish_CharlesBold.jpg None of these women are "normal," though the one at the lower right looks realistic. The one on the throne is a rather straighforward queenly image plus a sword -- I think she's Justice. Oh yes, there it is above her head, the first word in the inscription. As for the four women upholding the coat-of-arms: See those words written on their skirts? Those are labels, so you know what characteristic or attribute they stand for. They are too dark to read as-is, but playing around in a photo editor, I think the upper left one might be "Veritas," and the lower left is sage-something. The lower right one is clear: Sobrietas, or Sobriety. Now we know why she has no fantastical elements to her dress! --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list [email protected] http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
