Thanks for the reminder on the terminology <g>. It's awkward sometimes, switching back and forth between terms used in a given period, and terms used now, let alone oddities like "garb" that are subgroup specific. ;o) What I've been finding, graphically, certainly supports what you're saying. I'm seeing bits and pieces in various texts (costuming books, mostly) that mention the appearance of pleated gowns/houpelandes in men, earlier than in women. And I remember you talking in one of your lectures about wearing a proper fitted gown as an underlayer for a houp. Since, eventually, I'll actually be making clothing appropriate for my SCA persona, who wears English styles of the mid-late 1300s, I'm trying to pin down when houps first appeared as feminine apparel, and in what forms. I want to be able to give myself more options than just a kirtle/fitted gown-and-surcoat combination. A couple of shifts, a couple of undergowns, and a couple of options for the outer layer, ideally. (Plus accessories, headgear, etc., of course.) I've got a friend with some books that have images of brasses--I'll check those out. Mostly what I've got, myself, is a moderately bad reprint of the Tres Rich Heures, which I'll use if I have to....;o) --Sue
----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Historical Costume" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:01 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Appearance of ladies' houpelandes??? > I've seen them in English brasses from the 1390s or so, but most of the > manuscript images I can think of are 1400-1430. > > Be aware, too, that in the 1380s and 1390s you see some gowns that look > like early versions of what we call houppelandes now -- full in the body > but not quite so full as later, high neckline or a bit of a collar but not > the very tall ones yet, fairly narrow but not tight sleeves that haven't > yet grown into the big bells or bags. The transition is gradual, so it's > hard to point to a moment when the gowns officially qualify as > "houppelandes," and probably most of the people at the time called them > all "gowns" (or their language's equivalent of that word) anyway. > > --Robin > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > [email protected] > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list [email protected] http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
