---- <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Send h-costume mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of h-costume digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: V-neck regency gown? (Serena Dyer) > 2. Fake Blood--getting out of costumes? (Kate Pinner) > 3. Re: DESIGNER PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS (Sharon Collier) > 4. Re: DESIGNER PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS (Sylvia Rognstad) > 5. Director-designer professional standards ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > 6. Re: Director-designer professional standards > ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > 7. Re: Director-designer professional standards (Lynn Downward) > 8. Re: V-neck regency gown? ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > 9. Re: Fake Blood--getting out of costumes? (Sharon Collier) > 10. Re: Director-designer professional standards (Paula Praxis) > 11. Re: Fake Blood--getting out of costumes? (Dawn) > 12. Re: Director-designer professional standards (Margo Anderson) > 13. Re: DESIGNER PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:11:37 +0100 > From: "Serena Dyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [h-cost] V-neck regency gown? > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I believe there is a slight overlap on this pattern, but not to the extent > that there is in Janet Arnold. There are some pictures of the dress made up > at GBACG in their Pattern Review. > http://www.gbacg.org/great-pattern-review/la-mode-bagatelle.html (direct link > the La Mode Bagatelle page on GBACG) > > Hope that helps > > Serena Dyer > http://www.pemberleydesigns.co.uk > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:22:11 -0400 > From: Kate Pinner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [h-cost] Fake Blood--getting out of costumes? > To: "'Historical Costume'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > This may have been discussed before, but I don't remember. What formulas do > you use for blood and If the director wants it smeared on a costume (on > stage), how do you get it off -- especially wool and or velvet? > > Kate > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 11:37:54 -0700 > From: "Sharon Collier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [h-cost] DESIGNER PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS > To: "'Historical Costume'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > This is why I feel regular production meetings are so important. At the > first meeting, all the designers and the director get together and discuss > the direction of the show re: design, style, etc. As soon as the show is > cast, meet again and make any changes (if the leads won't look good in the > original ideas, change them ASAP) Then meet every week until tech week. It > keeps the director and producer from getting any surprises and you can let > folks know if their expectations aren't going to be met because of > budget/time/lack of help, etc. > As to professional standards, if the director/producer changes my ideas so > radically that I would be embarrassed to have my name on them, I do the job > as asked (I'm assuming you're getting paid), but ask that I not be listed in > the program as the designer, after all, if your designs have been altered, > they aren't a good reflection of your abilities. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of AVCHASE > Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 7:46 PM > To: h-costume posts > Subject: [h-cost] DESIGNER PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS > > Hi, All. The most recent show on which I worked opened last last Thursday. > And over all its a good show. But some of the fallout has been very > upsetting to me. > The director invited me to do this show for her, her last show (she's said > that for for the last three years), and I've done them. Each time some cast > members have been down right vicious. This time was the worst. > It occurred to me we expected different things as/from a designer. I'd just > assumed they all understood that I only did these shows to practice my > craft, keep my abilities in shape, and explore my ideas. Maybe her agenda > was different? > So I sent an email and asked what she had expected when she engaged a > designer. She wrote back to me a very complimentary (damned by praise-forget > faint) note about my design capabilities; but-said I was overbearing, didn't > listen to the actress's ideas and was not willing to take suggestions form > the actresses. The ideas and suggestions were put forth a few days before > dress and production had gotten me no help for a small musical with 48 > changes in it. Some very small; most changes are full costume though. I > found I was being difficult when I said there just wasn't time. > The worst part is that the changes weakened the visual dramatic impact but > were more conventional. > Now I want to write a little paper setting forth designer's professional > standards. It isn't that I don't know what most are but I don't know if they > are enumerated anywhere. Are they? Please help, both scholars and > practitioners. Audy > > in the high boonies of Central Texas > > ________________________________________ > PeoplePC Online > A better way to Internet > http://www.peoplepc.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > [email protected] > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 12:58:41 -0600 > From: Sylvia Rognstad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [h-cost] DESIGNER PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS > To: Historical Costume <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > I had a difficult situation with a play I designed last summer. The > director didn't have much of a clue what he wanted before the rehearsal > process started but he did have one conceptual concept he wanted > visualized by the costumes and I agreed it would be a good one, so I > designed the show around that. The play only had 2 actors, one male, > one female (The Last Five Years) and when rehearsals started, they, > especially the woman, started suggesting costume ideas. At that point, > the director more or less submitted to their-mainly her--ideas and my > ideas kind of flew out the window. It was a shopped show and one > weekend the woman even went to a store and bought some things she > liked, to bring back and show me. I was getting rather frustrated and > disappointed by then but tried to go with the flow and I actually did > appreciate their input, since they knew more about their characters > than I did through rehearsing their parts. I guess I've been in the > business enough by now to know do this, although it would have been > impossible if the costumes had been built. > > So I sympathize with you and your situation. Fortunately it hasn't > happened very often that the actors want to design their own costumes. > On one of the other plays I also designed last summer one actress asked > for a different color fabric after I had already purchased it, but we > had a big enough budget that I could do so. > > Several years ago I was draping a show that had cast an experienced > Broadway actress who was of a "certain age" and the designer had to > design 3 different possible outfits for her to approve before his > designs were finalized, so I know this happens a lot in our industry. > Sometimes the actors are right and have good ideas. Sometimes they are > not and you have to do what it takes to please them, as I've found that > directors usually bow to the actors, not the designer. > > Sylvia > > On Apr 14, 2008, at 12:37 PM, Sharon Collier wrote: > > > This is why I feel regular production meetings are so important. At the > > first meeting, all the designers and the director get together and > > discuss > > the direction of the show re: design, style, etc. As soon as the show > > is > > cast, meet again and make any changes (if the leads won't look good in > > the > > original ideas, change them ASAP) Then meet every week until tech > > week. It > > keeps the director and producer from getting any surprises and you can > > let > > folks know if their expectations aren't going to be met because of > > budget/time/lack of help, etc. > > As to professional standards, if the director/producer changes my > > ideas so > > radically that I would be embarrassed to have my name on them, I do > > the job > > as asked (I'm assuming you're getting paid), but ask that I not be > > listed in > > the program as the designer, after all, if your designs have been > > altered, > > they aren't a good reflection of your abilities. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > On > > Behalf Of AVCHASE > > Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 7:46 PM > > To: h-costume posts > > Subject: [h-cost] DESIGNER PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS > > > > Hi, All. The most recent show on which I worked opened last last > > Thursday. > > And over all its a good show. But some of the fallout has been very > > upsetting to me. > > The director invited me to do this show for her, her last show (she's > > said > > that for for the last three years), and I've done them. Each time some > > cast > > members have been down right vicious. This time was the worst. > > It occurred to me we expected different things as/from a designer. I'd > > just > > assumed they all understood that I only did these shows to practice my > > craft, keep my abilities in shape, and explore my ideas. Maybe her > > agenda > > was different? > > So I sent an email and asked what she had expected when she engaged a > > designer. She wrote back to me a very complimentary (damned by > > praise-forget > > faint) note about my design capabilities; but-said I was overbearing, > > didn't > > listen to the actress's ideas and was not willing to take suggestions > > form > > the actresses. The ideas and suggestions were put forth a few days > > before > > dress and production had gotten me no help for a small musical with 48 > > changes in it. Some very small; most changes are full costume though. I > > found I was being difficult when I said there just wasn't time. > > The worst part is that the changes weakened the visual dramatic impact > > but > > were more conventional. > > Now I want to write a little paper setting forth designer's > > professional > > standards. It isn't that I don't know what most are but I don't know > > if they > > are enumerated anywhere. Are they? Please help, both scholars and > > practitioners. Audy > > > > in the high boonies of Central Texas > > > > ________________________________________ > > PeoplePC Online > > A better way to Internet > > http://www.peoplepc.com > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:35:27 -0400 > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [h-cost] Director-designer professional standards > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I had a difficult situation with a play I designed last summer.? The > director didn't have much of a clue what he wanted before the rehearsal > process started but he did have one conceptual concept he wanted > visualized by the costumes and I agreed it would be a good one, so I > designed the show around that.? The play only had 2 actors, one male, > one female (The Last Five Years) and when rehearsals started, they, > especially the woman, started suggesting costume ideas.? At that point, > the director more or less submitted to their-mainly her--ideas and my > ideas kind of flew out the window.? It was a shopped show and one > weekend the woman even went to a store and bought some things she > liked, to bring back and show me.? I was getting rather frustrated and > disappointed by then but tried to go with the flow and I actually did > appreciate their input, since they knew more about their characters > than I did through rehearsing their parts.??? I guess I've been in the > business enough by now to know do this, although it would have been > impossible if the costumes had been built. > > > This is why I continue to maintain that contemporary show are the most > difficult to design.? Many cast members think they have a better idea than > the designer.? And?many directors, wanting to please the actors in order to > get the best possible performance out of them, will let the actors dictate to > the designer what they want.? Which is why research and renderings are > extremely valuable from the beginning of the process.? So it doesn't turn > into "He said, she said" and one can produce the original ideas which were > agreed on.? I hope we're not boring the non-costume designers on this list. > > > Cheryl Odom > College of Santa Fe > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:42:13 -0500 > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Director-designer professional standards > To: Historical Costume <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; > format="flowed" > > > I hope we're not boring the non-costume designers on this list. > > I, for one, am finding it fascinating, and a reminder of why I didn't > persue theatre after high school. > > Emma > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 12:47:41 -0700 > From: "Lynn Downward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Director-designer professional standards > To: "Historical Costume" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Message-ID: > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > I too find this conversation interesting as it's part of theater I know > nothing about. My daughter is in high school but has done some semi-legit > theater and hopes to pursue it as a career. I don't act except as a > recreationist and I make my own costumes under approval of a costume > director. However, I've helped others with their community theater and have > heard the stories. It seems that a contract really is the way to go. > > Lynn > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:42 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I hope we're not boring the non-costume designers on this list. > > > > I, for one, am finding it fascinating, and a reminder of why I didn't > > persue theatre after high school. > > > > Emma > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:49:01 -0400 > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [h-cost] V-neck regency gown? > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I have used this pattern for several Regency gowns. My advice is to have > someone fit you carefully. The overlap is tricky and?I've had to take both > bodices apart to refit them. > > Kathleen Norvell? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Aylwen Garden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Historical Costume <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 5:53 am > Subject: [h-cost] V-neck regency gown? > > > > A dancer in my group is making a v-neck regency gown and is using the > La Mode Bagetelle pattern. Has anyone here seen this version made up? > She has told me there is a huge overlap. Without being able to see it, > I can't see if this is designed to come out like the half robe in > Janet Arnold or not. > Thanks, Aylwen > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > [email protected] > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 12:52:32 -0700 > From: "Sharon Collier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fake Blood--getting out of costumes? > To: "'Historical Costume'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Just get rid of the director. It's easier. :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Kate Pinner > Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 11:22 AM > To: 'Historical Costume' > Subject: [h-cost] Fake Blood--getting out of costumes? > > > This may have been discussed before, but I don't remember. What formulas do > you use for blood and If the director wants it smeared on a costume (on > stage), how do you get it off -- especially wool and or velvet? > > Kate > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > [email protected] > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 12:52:19 -0700 > From: Paula Praxis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Director-designer professional standards > To: Historical Costume <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > This a discussion that benefits all era of costume. Agreed that not all on > this list work in theater but many of us do and to hear from others about > your experiences is great. I agree the modern period is the most difficult to > design for. I much prefer period plays. however there are some times that > are more difficult than others. I designed a play set in ancient Egypt. I > love archeology and am aware that slaves in the "real' ancient Egypt worked > naked - this didn't go over too well with my director - so I let her have her > way and designed slave costumes for the ensemble.> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:35:27 -0400> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: > [h-cost] Director-designer professional standards> > I had a difficult > situation with a play I designed last summer.? The > director didn't have > much of a clue what he wanted before the rehearsal > process started but he > did have one conceptual concept he wanted > visualized by the costumes and I > agreed! i! > t would be a good one, so I > designed the show around that.? The play only > had 2 actors, one male, > one female (The Last Five Years) and when > rehearsals started, they, > especially the woman, started suggesting costume > ideas.? At that point, > the director more or less submitted to their-mainly > her--ideas and my > ideas kind of flew out the window.? It was a shopped show > and one > weekend the woman even went to a store and bought some things she > > liked, to bring back and show me.? I was getting rather frustrated and > > disappointed by then but tried to go with the flow and I actually did > > appreciate their input, since they knew more about their characters > than I > did through rehearsing their parts.??? I guess I've been in the > business > enough by now to know do this, although it would have been > impossible if > the costumes had been built.> > > This is why I continue to maintain that > contemporary show are the most difficult to design.? Many cast members think > they have! a! > better idea than the designer.? And?many directors, wanting t! > o please the actors in order to get the best possible performance out of > them, will let the actors dictate to the designer what they want.? Which is > why research and renderings are extremely valuable from the beginning of the > process.? So it doesn't turn into "He said, she said" and one can produce the > original ideas which were agreed on.? I hope we're not boring the non-costume > designers on this list.> > > Cheryl Odom> College of Santa Fe> > _______________________________________________> h-costume mailing list> > [email protected]> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _________________________________________________________________ > Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. > http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_video_042008 > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:42:32 -0600 > From: Dawn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fake Blood--getting out of costumes? > To: Historical Costume <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Sharon Collier wrote: > > Just get rid of the director. It's easier. :-) > > > > > Only if you have friends to help you hide the body. :) > > > Dawn > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 13:44:01 -0700 > From: Margo Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Director-designer professional standards > To: Historical Costume <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > > On Apr 14, 2008, at 12:52 PM, Paula Praxis wrote: > > > > > This a discussion that benefits all era of costume. Agreed that > > not all on this list work in theater but many of us do and to hear > > from others about your experiences is great. I agree the modern > > period is the most difficult to design for. I much prefer period > > plays. however there are some times that are more difficult than > > others. I designed a play set in ancient Egypt. I love archeology > > and am aware that slaves in the "real' ancient Egypt worked naked - > > this didn't go over too well with my director - so I let her have > > her way and designed slave costumes for the ensemble. > > I'm helping with costumes for my 6th grader's class play, which is > set in Minoan era Crete. Not surprisingly, the teacher doesn't want > historically accurate costumes. We're putting them in chitons. :) > > Margo > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:52:32 EDT > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [h-cost] DESIGNER PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > In a message dated 4/14/2008 3:01:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > as I've found that > directors usually bow to the actors, not the designer. > > > > **************** > > And isn't it annoying. I want to just quit and let the actor do the whole > show....see how she likes that. I'm tired of wardrobe being on the bottom > rung > of the ladder. [I hear it's not so much so in Europe, especially Britain] > When is she gonna complain about the props or change the color of the > wallpaper > on the set? > > I don't mind actor's input....but I want the final decision to be mine if my > name is on it. > They don't hear me telling them how to read their lines, do they? > > > This is why I ended up cutting and draping more than designing. The actual > designer really appreciates what you do for them. > > > > > **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & > Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850) > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > [email protected] > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > End of h-costume Digest, Vol 7, Issue 138 > ***************************************** > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list [email protected] http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
