On Wed, Jul 23, 2003 at 01:27:47PM -0700, Joshua Koenig wrote: > You at HQ are right to be cautious about how all of this is > implemented, about how the Sites will be hosted and who will offer > support. But as I see it, it's really not something you want to try to > control. On the one hand you won't be able to -- the genie is already > out of the bottle as they say -- and on the other hand, the more > controlling force you exert, the less participation you will have.
Which is almost exactly the same thing that applies to the MeetUp's and why I'm sure Burlington is glad to *have* MeetUp.com "in the way".... and why our local steering committee tries (or at least, I do) to maintain a clear line of demarcation: we recommend to people where they should vote to meet, but we don't *tell* anyone. > Maybe the campaign needs to have a "party line" on these issues, a > stance they're sticking with; something that will legally protect you > from whatever any individual might attempt to do with the products of > our collective efforts. Individuals can either toe that party line (and > work under the campaign) or remain independent, which means they are > not allowed to coordinate. "... with Burlington." They'll likely be semi-automatically coordinating with one another. Remember the Gilmore quote, though, about routing around censorship. It's gonna get windy out by and by, folks. > > I see the main advantage of working with the campaign being, from a > > political point of view, that the work you are doing can not only win > > the presidency but transform politics. Because there is a driver behind > > it -- Dean -- it will grow exponentially. > > I'll have to respectfully disagree with you here, Zephyr. As much as I > like Howard Dean and want him to win the presidency, the truly > transformative power of what we're doing comes from it's ability to be > picked up and used by any campaign by any party anywhere in the world. > If it's just a DeanTool this will not happen. It will need to die (and > hopefully be reborn) on election day. If it's something else -- the > virtual town hall -- then it has a life and an impact that reaches far > beyond Decision 2004. Very eloquently put, Josh, and I agree. > > In my vision, Howard Dean will not just mention Meetups on the > > stump, but setting up Dean Community Sites. I really believe this is > > the > > next phase of the revolution -- and I'm sorry if you're feeling some of > > the constraints, but I hope you decide that they are worth it. > > I think we all share this vision, but at the same time I strongly doubt > the campaign exercises any direct control -- legally or content-wise -- > over Meetup. And by corollary, I don't see any reason why DFA ought to need to exercise *control* over either the design or implementation of the "kit". They can promulgate *standards*, certainly, just as Avon has for websites run by it's independent distributors -- and indeed, perhaps that's the best analogy here: modulo FEC regs, local committees which have *not* yet formally affiliated with Burlington are "independent contractors". As long as they don't violate the law, they can say, editorially, what they like. Whether they have a license to use materials supplied by DFA, likely, is where such control as they campaign might impose would come from. > Similarly, IMHO our effort needs to be fundamentally independent from > the campaign for a time (as it has been for the past months and > functionally still is now), until it is mature enough that we (the > hack4dean working group) can release our code. At that point, the > campaign is free to pick up the ball and run with it, and various > elements of this group will be free to do the same, to pursue whatever > other dreams they have for this movement. > > We're not there yet. Bummer. > Now with Dean as a frontrunner, we run the risk of turning too much in > the opposite direction. To my mind, it's of the utmost importance that > the effort of developing this kit be an all-volunteer Free software > effort. Once this is done, it seems likely that the hack4dean group > will splinter: some will continue to work on the kit, some will break > off and focus on helping people set up nodes, some will go to work > directly for the campaign in one capacity or another, some will attempt > other things. This is natural and good. Yeah, I don't know how to deal with success either. ;-) Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] Member of the Technical Staff Baylink RFC 2100 The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 OS X: Because making Unix user-friendly was easier than debugging Windows -- Simon Slavin, on a.f.c