i agree with the quote of Joel Spolsky that Vadim posted . it is the cultural difference which results in technological differences and not the other way around .
my experience with Microsoft programmers is that they are all busyness oriented rather than programing and most of the time the personal treatment is highly dependent on the organizational hierarchy ... or to cut to the case they are simply all arrogant morons and corporate thugs i don't have in-depth experience with linux , but things i find important is the efficiency of the package management , for me windows software installation and upgrades are nightmares compared to linux on my previous job i worked on .NET and most libraries and service packs insisted to be installed under C: and not in another partition and for each software installed the windows directory grew bigger and bigger because of installers stored files On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 3:57 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Send Haifux mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Haifux digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: advanced of programming in Linux (Gabor Szabo) > 2. Re: advanced of programming in Linux (Shahar Dag) > 3. Re: advanced of programming in Linux (Vadim Eisenberg) > 4. Re: advanced of programming in Linux (Tal Abir) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 13:49:13 +0200 > From: Gabor Szabo <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Haifux] advanced of programming in Linux > To: Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda <[email protected]> > Cc: Haifux <[email protected]>, Shahar Dag <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > IMHO it is not only about "better" is also that by having a broader > knowledge > you increase your value and your chances to get a job. > > Interestingly recently I more and more see companies that use Linux. > Even as the developer desktops. > > On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Shahar Dag <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> > >> Hello all > >> > >> mix & match is just a buzzword. > > > > Change all files foo* to bar*. Easy with make or a shell loop, I am not > > familiar with a convenient ready-made tool. > > > > I can give you another, similar examples. > > Replace the word Java by C# in every .txt file in a directory structure. > Replace the field A4 in every Excel (.xls) file in a directory structure. > Sum the 3rd column of every Excel file in a directory structure. > > I am sure you can write it in Windows shell but I am quite confident it > is much simpler to write the above two either as a shell or as a perl > script. > > > Repeating tasks - History. > Many tasks we do are repeating the same command in a slightly different > way. > > The Linux/Unix version might need you to type in a 20-30 character > long command. > The windows version might be shorter and and might require less things > to remember. > It might involve clicking on 5 buttons and typing 2 strings. > > BUT, the next time you have to do the task - or a similar task - in > the windowing system you will > have to repeat the whole sequence while in a unix/linux shell where > you have a history and > strong editing capabilities you can reuse the precious solutions. > > > In the end I am not sure the way to go is to advocate Unix/Linux. It > might be to direct them to the > command line, some high-level scripting language and maybe even cygwin > to put them on the > road in the direction.... > > Some of them will arrive. > > Gabor > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 14:46:58 +0200 > From: "Shahar Dag" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Haifux] advanced of programming in Linux > To: "Haifux" <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; > reply-type=original > > Hello all > > everything is correct: > some jobs are easier on Linux > knowing another OS make you a better programmer > Linux is free & so are most of its tools > > but what I am looking for is: > a description of a simple every day job > that windows people will say that they will have to spent half a day > programming to automate it. > that widows people will admit that it is something reasonable to do. > a job that can be accomplished on Linux with 10 minutes > and the result should be to bring the Windows people to consider Linux (at > list) as their development environment > > Shahar > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gabor Szabo" <[email protected]> > To: "Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda" <[email protected]> > Cc: "Haifux" <[email protected]>; "Shahar Dag" <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 1:49 PM > Subject: Re: [Haifux] advanced of programming in Linux > > > > IMHO it is not only about "better" is also that by having a broader > > knowledge > > you increase your value and your chances to get a job. > > > > Interestingly recently I more and more see companies that use Linux. > > Even as the developer desktops. > > > > On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda > > <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Shahar Dag <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>> > >>> Hello all > >>> > >>> mix & match is just a buzzword. > >> > >> Change all files foo* to bar*. Easy with make or a shell loop, I am not > >> familiar with a convenient ready-made tool. > >> > > > > I can give you another, similar examples. > > > > Replace the word Java by C# in every .txt file in a directory structure. > > Replace the field A4 in every Excel (.xls) file in a directory structure. > > Sum the 3rd column of every Excel file in a directory structure. > > > > I am sure you can write it in Windows shell but I am quite confident it > > is much simpler to write the above two either as a shell or as a perl > > script. > > > > > > Repeating tasks - History. > > Many tasks we do are repeating the same command in a slightly different > > way. > > > > The Linux/Unix version might need you to type in a 20-30 character > > long command. > > The windows version might be shorter and and might require less things > > to remember. > > It might involve clicking on 5 buttons and typing 2 strings. > > > > BUT, the next time you have to do the task - or a similar task - in > > the windowing system you will > > have to repeat the whole sequence while in a unix/linux shell where > > you have a history and > > strong editing capabilities you can reuse the precious solutions. > > > > > > In the end I am not sure the way to go is to advocate Unix/Linux. It > > might be to direct them to the > > command line, some high-level scripting language and maybe even cygwin > > to put them on the > > road in the direction.... > > > > Some of them will arrive. > > > > Gabor > > _______________________________________________ > > Haifux mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 15:32:52 +0200 > From: Vadim Eisenberg <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Haifux] advanced of programming in Linux > To: Shahar Dag <[email protected]>, Haifux <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > FYI – a nice article of Joel Spolsky about the differences between Unix and > Windows - http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Biculturalism.html . > > > Some quotes from the article: > > *By now, Windows and Unix are functionally more similar than different. > They > both support the same major programming metaphors, from command lines to > GUIs to web servers; they are organized around virtually the same panoply > of > system resources, from nearly identical file systems to memory to sockets > and processes and threads. There's not much about the core set of services > provided by each operating system to limit the kinds of applications you > can > create.* > > *What's left is cultural differences.* > > *...* > > *What are the cultural differences between Unix and Windows programmers? > There are many details and subtleties, but for the most part it comes down > to one thing: Unix culture values code which is useful to other > programmers, > while Windows culture values code which is useful to non-programmers.* > > *...* > > Regards, > > Vadim > > > On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Shahar Dag <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hello all > > > > everything is correct: > > some jobs are easier on Linux > > knowing another OS make you a better programmer > > Linux is free & so are most of its tools > > > > but what I am looking for is: > > a description of a simple every day job > > that windows people will say that they will have to spent half a day > > programming to automate it. > > that widows people will admit that it is something reasonable to do. > > a job that can be accomplished on Linux with 10 minutes > > and the result should be to bring the Windows people to consider Linux > (at > > list) as their development environment > > > > Shahar > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gabor Szabo" <[email protected]> > > To: "Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda" <[email protected]> > > Cc: "Haifux" <[email protected]>; "Shahar Dag" <[email protected]> > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 1:49 PM > > Subject: Re: [Haifux] advanced of programming in Linux > > > > > > > IMHO it is not only about "better" is also that by having a broader > > > knowledge > > > you increase your value and your chances to get a job. > > > > > > Interestingly recently I more and more see companies that use Linux. > > > Even as the developer desktops. > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Shahar Dag <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Hello all > > >>> > > >>> mix & match is just a buzzword. > > >> > > >> Change all files foo* to bar*. Easy with make or a shell loop, I am > not > > >> familiar with a convenient ready-made tool. > > >> > > > > > > I can give you another, similar examples. > > > > > > Replace the word Java by C# in every .txt file in a directory > structure. > > > Replace the field A4 in every Excel (.xls) file in a directory > structure. > > > Sum the 3rd column of every Excel file in a directory structure. > > > > > > I am sure you can write it in Windows shell but I am quite confident it > > > is much simpler to write the above two either as a shell or as a perl > > > script. > > > > > > > > > Repeating tasks - History. > > > Many tasks we do are repeating the same command in a slightly different > > > way. > > > > > > The Linux/Unix version might need you to type in a 20-30 character > > > long command. > > > The windows version might be shorter and and might require less things > > > to remember. > > > It might involve clicking on 5 buttons and typing 2 strings. > > > > > > BUT, the next time you have to do the task - or a similar task - in > > > the windowing system you will > > > have to repeat the whole sequence while in a unix/linux shell where > > > you have a history and > > > strong editing capabilities you can reuse the precious solutions. > > > > > > > > > In the end I am not sure the way to go is to advocate Unix/Linux. It > > > might be to direct them to the > > > command line, some high-level scripting language and maybe even cygwin > > > to put them on the > > > road in the direction.... > > > > > > Some of them will arrive. > > > > > > Gabor > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Haifux mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Haifux mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://hamakor.org.il/pipermail/haifux/attachments/20091102/1b31eb50/attachment-0001.htm > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 15:57:10 +0200 > From: Tal Abir <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Haifux] advanced of programming in Linux > To: Shahar Dag <[email protected]> > Cc: Haifux <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > There is no such task. > > Thanks, > Tal. > > On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Shahar Dag <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hello all > > > > everything is correct: > > some jobs are easier on Linux > > knowing another OS make you a better programmer > > Linux is free & so are most of its tools > > > > but what I am looking for is: > > a description of a simple every day job > > that windows people will say that they will have to spent half a day > > programming to automate it. > > that widows people will admit that it is something reasonable to do. > > a job that can be accomplished on Linux with 10 minutes > > and the result should be to bring the Windows people to consider Linux > (at > > list) as their development environment > > > > Shahar > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gabor Szabo" <[email protected]> > > To: "Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda" <[email protected]> > > Cc: "Haifux" <[email protected]>; "Shahar Dag" <[email protected]> > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 1:49 PM > > Subject: Re: [Haifux] advanced of programming in Linux > > > > > > > IMHO it is not only about "better" is also that by having a broader > > > knowledge > > > you increase your value and your chances to get a job. > > > > > > Interestingly recently I more and more see companies that use Linux. > > > Even as the developer desktops. > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Shahar Dag <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Hello all > > >>> > > >>> mix & match is just a buzzword. > > >> > > >> Change all files foo* to bar*. Easy with make or a shell loop, I am > not > > >> familiar with a convenient ready-made tool. > > >> > > > > > > I can give you another, similar examples. > > > > > > Replace the word Java by C# in every .txt file in a directory > structure. > > > Replace the field A4 in every Excel (.xls) file in a directory > structure. > > > Sum the 3rd column of every Excel file in a directory structure. > > > > > > I am sure you can write it in Windows shell but I am quite confident it > > > is much simpler to write the above two either as a shell or as a perl > > > script. > > > > > > > > > Repeating tasks - History. > > > Many tasks we do are repeating the same command in a slightly different > > > way. > > > > > > The Linux/Unix version might need you to type in a 20-30 character > > > long command. > > > The windows version might be shorter and and might require less things > > > to remember. > > > It might involve clicking on 5 buttons and typing 2 strings. > > > > > > BUT, the next time you have to do the task - or a similar task - in > > > the windowing system you will > > > have to repeat the whole sequence while in a unix/linux shell where > > > you have a history and > > > strong editing capabilities you can reuse the precious solutions. > > > > > > > > > In the end I am not sure the way to go is to advocate Unix/Linux. It > > > might be to direct them to the > > > command line, some high-level scripting language and maybe even cygwin > > > to put them on the > > > road in the direction.... > > > > > > Some of them will arrive. > > > > > > Gabor > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Haifux mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Haifux mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://hamakor.org.il/pipermail/haifux/attachments/20091102/e1877222/attachment.htm > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Haifux mailing list > [email protected] > http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux > > > End of Haifux Digest, Vol 27, Issue 8 > ************************************* >
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