Nathan,

Not only is it optional, but I just discovered it is entirely hidden
from you unless you go looking for it. I am also a fan of the old
syntax, but wanting Susy to stay in line with compass, I spent today
making the switch for susy (to be released in mere hours if all goes
well).

When I created a new compass/susy project I entirely expected that the
template files (_base.scss etc) created by susy would be all scss-y
and frustrating to look at. Not bad, considering I could just sass-
convert them, but annoying for those of us using the old syntax. But
that Didn't Happen!

Whoever built this thing built it right: the conversion happened
automatically and behind the scenes based on my "preferred_syntax"
setting in config.rb. As far as my project goes, Compass and Susy are
still exactly the same as they ever were.

Nothing Has Changed. Fantastic.

(well, ! changed to $, but that's an unrelated update: I didn't have
to look at any scss anywhere.)

This update, for everything happening in the back-end, is slick as
hell as far as syntax choice goes.

Cheers,
-e




On Apr 12, 7:29 pm, NathanD <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm glad to hear that the new syntax is optional.  I nearly had a
> heart attack when I saw the change.
>
> Sorry about the rant then.  Keep up the good work, and I hope to
> continue using SASS/Compass for a long time!
>
> On Apr 12, 6:36 pm, Nathan Weizenbaum <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > To add to Chris's excellent explanation, and answer your other
> > question: no, Haml will not be getting a new syntax. The reason Sass
> > is and Haml isn't might give you some insight into the reasons for
> > this change. The point of Haml has always been to provide a nicer
> > syntax for HTML, to reduce the verbosity and repetition that come with
> > all those angle brackets and closing tags. When Sass was originally
> > conceived, it was designed to do the same for CSS: get rid of the
> > syntactic cruft, and make it quicker to write.
>
> > But as Sass has grown up, it's grown out of that role and into others.
> > Especially with the aid of Compass, Sass now allows you to write CSS
> > not just with better syntax, but with better semantics. The use of
> > mixins, variables, and the powerful features built around those in
> > Sass means that it's now more than just an alternate syntax for CSS.
> > It's a language that's in many ways more powerful than CSS. And for
> > many people, that's a very welcome thing.
>
> > So I would say that the introduction of SCSS isn't just for audience,
> > at least not in the strictest sense. It's also a recognition of what
> > Sass has become, and a movement to support that, even for people who
> > don't like the indented syntax.
>
> > Of course, as Chris said, the indented syntax as a syntactic
> > improvement to CSS is still valuable for many people like you (and us
> > as well: Chris and I both prefer the indented syntax for our own use).
> > It will always exist, and I hope you'll continue to use and enjoy it.
>
> > On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 3:17 PM, Chris Eppstein <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > I think you've misunderstood the direction of this project even though I
> > > think we've been quite clear. The whitespace aware syntax is not going 
> > > away.
> > > (dramatic pause)
> > > In Sass 3, Nathan has made the core of what Sass is a lot more technically
> > > robust. This has allowed us to get rid of a number of syntactic annoyances
> > > like the need to use = or #{} in the most common cases to use SassScript.
> > > On top of this core, there are three parsers, one for the indentation 
> > > based
> > > syntax, another for the css superset syntax called scss, and one for 
> > > parsing
> > > css3. The way these parsers work is by translating your document into a
> > > syntax agnostic representation called an AST, which can then be converted 
> > > to
> > > css, sass, or scss. This is also what enables the two syntaxes to 
> > > completely
> > > interoperate across imports.
> > > You do not have to use SCSS to write your stylesheets and again, we have 
> > > no
> > > intention of deprecating the indentation based syntax.
> > > (dramatic pause)
> > > Regarding the use of $ as a variable indicator, I'm sorry that you do not
> > > like this change, but it is one that is important to make and make
> > > consistent across the syntaxes. The reason for this is quite simple: ! 
> > > has a
> > > CSS meaning already. It is a statement modifier. As such, that syntax is 
> > > now
> > > used to modify variable assignments: $foo: 2px !default, instead of the 
> > > more
> > > ruby-esque $foo ||= 2px. To goal of such changes is to lower the cognitive
> > > distance between sass/scss and css -- especially for designers.
> > > Now, regarding compass, I have decided to change the syntax of the files 
> > > in
> > > compass because I want as many people to read and understand them as
> > > possible. You can import them into your project's sass files by simply
> > > removing the ".sass" from the end of your imports (note: I've also 
> > > converted
> > > underscores to dashes in the import names as indicated by the deprecation
> > > warnings in rc2). SCSS will also be the default syntax for new compass
> > > projects, but a simple config setting and/or command line switch puts you
> > > right back into Sass-land.
> > > Now, regarding your statement that this is "just for adoption". Make no
> > > mistake: that is the goal. I don't see why we would lose you as a user 
> > > given
> > > what I've said above, and we'll do what we can to avoid that, but if it
> > > happens, it happens -- I can't make you use our code or upgrade. But allow
> > > me to explain what is in it for you by growing the Sass community: There 
> > > is
> > > strength in numbers. We can share our code with each other, have an easier
> > > time hiring, and an easier time convincing our management to let us use 
> > > this
> > > technology. We will learn and develop best practices by collaborating with
> > > each other. So yes, I want to increase adoption because the power of sass 
> > > is
> > > much less about how it looks and a lot more about how the features it
> > > provides changes the way we approach building design.
> > > Chris
> > > On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 2:09 PM, NathanD <[email protected]> 
> > > wrote:
>
> > >> I'm not sure where to post this.  Ever since learning that SASS is
> > >> going to be SCSS I've become a little distraught.  I've been
> > >> absolutely loving SASS as a language.  It's visually easy to navigate
> > >> and see how CSS cascades.  It's actually a lot of *fun*, I feel like
> > >> I'm programming Python instead of Perl/PHP.  This is a good thing.
>
> > >> With SCSS, I feel like SASS taking a step backward and getting into
> > >> Perl territory.  CSS is already dense enough.  I don't really need
> > >> curly-braces, dollar marks or semi-colons.  They're just visual cruft
> > >> that (seem to) serve no purpose but to ease adoption by people who are
> > >> already familiar with CSS.  The trade-off doesn't seem like it's worth
> > >> it.
>
> > >> I'm wondering if the already-wonderful HAML is going to take the same
> > >> steps and get into using angle brackets and 'dumb it down' so that
> > >> people who know HTML will be more at home with it.
>
> > >> Is all this just for greater adoption?  Or is there a deeper purpose?
> > >> If it's just adoption, you've lost me.  I use [compass] every day to
> > >> style documents at work.  If SCSS becomes the default to compile
> > >> against, I'll just not upgrade.  It's just not worth it to me.
>
> > >> Thanks.
>
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>

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