You don't suppose there's any hope that 2+3*4 will some day be 14? (After more than 10 years working with MUMPS, that's still a hard one for me to swallow.)
More seriously, you can add my vote that the time has come to revive both the MDC and MTA. In my opinion, MUMPS does have a lot to recommend it, but to remain viable it does need to continue to evolve. --- "A. Forrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I definitely support Joseph's statement, as Rick and other hard hats > already know. I felt dissolution of both the MTA and the MDC were > wrong > following the 1999 meeting and the fact that the "Millenium Standard" > was > ready for ballot at that last meeting but never happened was a > setback. It > can be reversed. A host organization for the MDC and an > organizational > framework for an ANSI-accredited SDO must be written. The NE MUG > remains a > viable organization and encompass all the market, not just healthcare > or > VistA and this will be important. WV must actively promote getting > this > done. Bashkar can offer inputs regarding other market segments and an > > initial listing of Suppliers of of M-based products and services must > be > compiled quickly to aid in this effort. The HH website can be a > mechanmism > of dissemination. Another question of great importance has to do with > > building the education infrastructure to which Dick Walters insights > will > be important. We must stimulate the creation of programs which > feature M > and how it is integrated into the Life Cycle Principles for system > design > and implementation as well as how to utilize its unique features to > advantage. This subject was pushed at the Sept 1998 MDC meeting in > Seattle > but had not taken off by the 1999 San Diego meeting; the resurrecred > MDC > must be structured to address this education issue in this broad > context > as it will drive a stake in the heart of the "MUMPS is OLD" saw being > used > to rid the market of a powerful component. We must draw on the M > vendor > list to be created. We here at UW will contribute to rebuilding the M > > Education capabilities. > > On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Joseph Dal Molin wrote: > > > It is definitely time to do it....it is not constructive to see > this kind of > > press as the VA "hates" MUMPS.... rather it should be seen as "we > need help" > > to a) address the deficiencies b) we do not be dependent on a > single vendor > > c) we need company. Ironically, a new MDC that leverages an open > source > > "business" model, can I believe, without any doubt do what the Red > Sox just > > did. More importantly the rest of the planet will need an MDC etc. > because > > the will need the same things the VA needs whether or not the VA > sticks with > > MUMPS..... > > > > I am not a MUMPSTer...so I say this from a practical strategic > > perspective..... it is indeed a time for revival...a pragmatic > one...that > > focuses on improving and leveraging what is good about M and > dispelling the > > mythology and misinformation that has bred in the absence of an > MDC/MUG. With > > so many vendors still using M, eg. Epic, Meditech, Cerner, McKesson > surely > > there is both commercial and user interest. Epic for example, has > become one > > of the best systems in the industry....in part it's its > management...but one > > cannot ignore its underlying architecture. BTW is there anywhere a > commercial > > system that uses the full architecture proposed for 5 years from > now?? > > > > joseph > > > > Nancy E. Anthracite wrote: > >> This is the article I posted days ago that many of you could not > read and > >> that I said I would try to get for you, so here it is and this was > the > >> original URL. The original thread was Joseph Conn's interview > with Dr. > >> Kolodner. > >> > >> http://www.modernphysician.com/news.cms?newsId=2817 > >> > >> Notice how the lack of a Mumps Users Group and as a corollary, I'm > sure, > >> the MDC, is the backbone of his argument that VistA needs to be > moved to a > >> SQL database. The MDC desperately needs to be revived. > >> > >> I found this URL interesting last night. This is a company I was > not aware > >> of. If their product is good, it would seem to satisfy the VA's > burning > >> desire to extract and analyze their data in an SQL database as > they do not > >> seem to want to do that straight out of a Mumps database, probably > because > >> so many people are trained in making SQL queries but not in how to > extract > >> data from VistA. I actually thought that Cache had this > capability in it > >> already, but I may be mistaken. > >> I suspect that this company owes its viability to already being > used by the > >> VA, but I don't know about that. In fact, maybe some of the folks > in the > >> company are on this mailing list or come to WV meetings, I don't > know. One > >> would think they are as disappointed as we are that the database > is being > >> moved by the VA. > >> > >> http://mde.srs-inc.com/aboutmde.html > >> It is interesting that he mentioned that it will be inexpensive to > move the > >> data from one SQL database to another, but the cost of the move > from mumps > >> to the SQL database will certainly not be. > >> I wonder what the cost of performing the needed maintenance to a > the mumps > >> database would be as compared to the cost of this move. > >> > >> > >> On Wednesday 24 November 2004 01:08 am, Joseph Dal Molin wrote: > >> > >>> Could you please provide the URL for this so it is adequately > >>> referenced....thanks!!! > >>> > >>> Joseph > >>> > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >>> > >>>> Here it is Nancy. > >>>> > >>>> Tom Henderson > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> FOIA version of Vista remains available despite recent changes > >>>> /*By Joseph Conn <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> / *November 17, 2004/ > >>>> // > >>>> Despite plans to overhaul its Vista clinical system, the > Veterans > >>>> Health Administration will continue to offer copies of its > >>>> multimillion-dollar software to private-sector users for a > nominal fee > >>>> under the Freedom of Information Act, according to the > Department of > >>>> Veterans Affairs' top physician informaticist. > >>>> > >>>> "We have the full support of the VHA leadership to continue to > keep this > >>>> in the public domain," said Robert Kolodner, M.D., acting chief > health > >>>> informatics officer at the VHA and deputy chief information > officer for > >>>> health at the VA. > >>>> > >>>> On Nov. 8, the VA published a request for vendors to submit > statements > >>>> of their capability to provide the VA with what it called > "rehosting > >>>> support." It also called for vendors to provide routine service > and > >>>> support for the VA's Vista healthcare information technology > system. > >>>> > >>>> Kolodner said the move also would have no immediate impact on an > effort > >>>> initiated by the VA and the CMS to develop a version of Vista > for the > >>>> physician office practice. That software should be ready by > summer 2005, > >>>> according to the CMS. > >>>> > >>>> One goal of the proposed five-year contract is to move the VA's > >>>> healthcare IT system from the programming language and database > on which > >>>> it was first written in the late 1970s and where it remains > today: from > >>>> MUMPS, or the Massachusetts General Hospital Utility > Multi-Programming > >>>> System (now known as M), to, as much as possible, open-source > versions > >>>> of the Java programming language and possibly at least two > relational > >>>> database systems, Kolodner said. > >>>> > >>>> Kolodner said the VA initially plans to run a national database > on > >>>> software from Oracle Corp. and regional databases on the > relational > >>>> database portion of Cache, a program by InterSystems Corp., > which > >>>> incorporates a proprietary version of M now used by the VA. > >>>> > >>>> "But it could be on (Microsoft's) Sequel Server or SQL or any > other > >>>> database," Kolodner said, adding the VA would incur a > "relatively small > >>>> cost" to convert Vista from one database to another if need be. > >>>> > >>>> "We've had a history of staying vendor-independent," he said. > >>>> > >>>> Within the VA, M has developed almost a religious following > among > >>>> programmers for its speed, dependability, flexibility and > scalability, > >>>> and several of today's leading commercial healthcare IT systems > have M > >>>> at their core. But Kolodner said it is time to switch. > >>>> > >>>> "MUMPS has served us very well over the last 20 years," he said. > "We > >>>> have done a lot with it, and it has supported our needs." > >>>> > >>>> However, many M vendors have been bought by InterSystems and a > >>>> once-thriving MUMPS user group has gone defunct. Today, there > are fewer > >>>> programmers skilled in M than in a more modern language, such as > Java. > >>>> > >>>> "There are times when it is much too expensive and takes much > too long > >>>> to make changes and support the needs that we have," he said. > "Java is > >>>> taught in more schools than MUMPS is." > >>>> > >>>> In addition, Java and relational databases are better suited > together, > >>>> he said. > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------------------------- > >>> SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide > >>> Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real > users. > >>> Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading > now. > >>> http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/ > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Hardhats-members mailing list > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide > > Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real > users. > > Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading > now. > > http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Hardhats-members mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide > Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real > users. > Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. > > http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Hardhats-members mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members > ===== A practical man is a man who practices the errors of his forefathers. --Benjamin Disraeli ==== Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ------------------------------------------------------- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/ _______________________________________________ Hardhats-members mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
