I agree with you that there's a real irony here in that "MUMPS is old" is rhetoric is becoming more common at the same time that rqapid prototyping is coming (back) into vogue.
I am really of two minds when it comes to the relationship between life cycle models and standards bodies. The main issue is whether a life cycle model should be tied to a language by being incorporated into its defining documents (or closely associated documents). A second, perhaps more nebulous, issue is the question of just what it is that constitutes a language definition. Certainly, syntax and semantics (narrowly construed) are part of a language definition, but what about pragmatics? I would not say that scholars engaged in the study of English pragmatics are not "doing linguistics". Even so, if the pragmatics of MUMPS does include such concepts as rapid prototyping, is this something that needs to be *specified* or even *described* as part of the language standard? I'm not at all sure that it does. Standards may exist for life cycle models (a problematic notion in my opinion, but one I don't necessarily consider improper or not to be useful) then it may well be reasonable to ask how that standard (or other document) *applies* to a specific language. To me, this seems the proper context for discussing life cycle models, and is conceptually rather different from trying to incorporate a life cycle model into a language definition (unless, of course, this is something the language was specifically meant to address). --- "A. Forrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yes, I was refrring to the XP LCM which has been under discussion. > The > concept of Rapid Protoyping arose in the same time frame (late 1960s) > as M > but the ASTM E-1340 arose in the mid 1980s after DHCP and the first > X11.1 > MUMPS std were already out but it arose specifically for guiding > healthcare applications as a resulkt of the early VA experience. It > is > tied to the IEEE/JTC1 SC7 IEEE-1074, IS 12207 etc general standards > but > clealry depicts how the same best recommended practices can be > effectively > harnessed to underpin a technology like M. The MDC's task is to > describe > how to adhere to all the needed practices without being impeding the > advantages of the M environment. Quickly documnting these best > recommended > practices consistent with the general posture will explicitly > strengthen > the use of M environment and be in agreement with the principles that > were > part of the CMU criticisms of the DVA's approach to VistA evolution. > Many, > if not most, of the VA working developers/maintainers - if not some > in the > administrative track - had already utilized these principles. Dan > Gray and > others had participated with IEEE-CS in the 1074 standard that led to > the > IEEE/JTC1 SC7 series and carried these principles into the work of > the MDC > into 1999 as well as appropriately incorporated the ideas into > practices > within the VA. The task now is to ensure that the M/VistA community > clearly articulates the appropriate application of these principles > to not > only the VistA/VA effort but also to the numerous other health > informatics > Suppliers in the market that use M. Such visible use of, and > reference to, > these principles will put the lie to those who tout the "MUMPS is > Old" and > showe that they arent paying attention to whats going on. It will > just be > one small step in appropriate applying M to all problem areas that > can > benefit. It will, however take all of us to keep reminding the world > of > key facts. > > On Tue, 28 Jun 2005, Greg Woodhouse wrote: > > > By "that" do you mean XP (which is not really a life cycle model)? > > > > I don't know that I've ever heard it claimed that rapid prototyping > > *originated* with M, but I certainly agree that M is a language > well > > suited to rapid prototyping, and that it was one of the first > languages > > of this type. > > > > --- "A. Forrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> Thats one Life Cycle Model useful for certain problems. Another > which > >> is > >> much more prevalent in the M Community is Rapid Prototyping which > >> almost > >> originated with the language; an updated ASTM E-1340, just > completed, > >> > >> describes this LCM. Its best recommended practices related to M > will > >> be > >> one task for the MDC but should be complex or burdensome. > >> > >> On Mon, 27 Jun 2005, Kevin Toppenberg wrote: > >> > > > > > > > > === > > Gregory Woodhouse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > "Design quality doesn't ensure success, but design failure can > ensure failure." > > > > --Kent Beck > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration > Strategies > > from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, > > informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to > > speed, fast. > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477&alloc_id=16492&op=click > > _______________________________________________ > > Hardhats-members mailing list > > Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration > Strategies > from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, > informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to > speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477&alloc_id=16492&op=click > _______________________________________________ > Hardhats-members mailing list > Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members > === Gregory Woodhouse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "Design quality doesn't ensure success, but design failure can ensure failure." --Kent Beck ------------------------------------------------------- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477&alloc_id=16492&op=click _______________________________________________ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
