Yes, I really don't get caught up in the semantics too much. But you're right these are more "features" that I would have liked to have seen available in M development environments.
I'm guessing there just was not enough competition in the M marketplace to truly force these issues. Some vendor(s) have implemented some of what I'm talking about in sort of a cobbled way. But it's always seemed (to me) like an opportunity was missed to out compete some of the real DBMS competition, by building better tools to build real applications. For some reason M vendors have been content to remain on the fringes, rather than competing for center stage. Maybe it was just safer, to fly below the radar. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Toppenberg Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 4:37 PM To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Hardhats-members] Re: MUMPS features What you are describing is infrastructure, built with the language, not issues of the language itself. But then perhaps that is your point. On 8/16/05, Sowinski, Richard J. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Greg, I can live with all of your gripes. My biggest issues are: no > integrated Graphical User Interface. No integrated IDE for same. No > built-in > capacity for storing images. > > Now some vendors (one vendor in particular) have built extensions that do > some of this. But nothing that I've seen that feels truly integrated. > > When you look at all the effort that was put into the VistA Broker, and all > the Delphi programming that was done, and all the re-hosting that is > supposedly being done now, I think it can be at least partially attributed > to these missing pieces, not because 2+3*4 equals 20. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg > Woodhouse > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 3:51 PM > To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net > Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] MUMPS features > > Hmm...I hesitate to do this, for fear of forgetting something, but my > MUMPS "greatest hits" list, includes at least > > 1. Global arrays > 2. Hierarchical arrays in general, and especially the ability to store > values at non-leaf nodes. > 3. An integrated JOB command and the $J special variable > 4. Patterns > 5. The MERGE command > 6. Built in string handling functions > 7. Incremental locks (but see below) > 8. Indirection and the XECUTE command (again with some caveats) > 9. Simplicity > > By contrast, my "biggest gripes" list includes > > 1. Default global scope for variables > 2. No static scoping > 3. No interprocess communication or asynchronous signaling > 4. Weak support for I/O > 5. I'm sorry, but 2 + 3 * 4 is NOT 20 > 6. Unintuitive (and not clearly useful) semantics for reference > parameters > 7. Incremental locks don't block (like semaphores) > 8. No distinction between read and write locks > 9. No support for namespaces or packages > 10. No flexibility with regard to character sets > > > --- Chris Richardson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I don't have much easy association with baseball, but; > > > > 1) the polymorphic Data Representation (for SET X="12 Cats"); > > A) a string, WRITE X > > B) an expression, WRITE X+"15 Dogs" > > C) a Truth Value, IF X WRITE "True" > > D) has properties, WRITE > > %DATA(X)_":"_$LENGTH(X)_":"_$LENGTH(X," ") > > (and a lot more) > > E) has substrings, WRITE $PIECE(X," ",2) > > F) extensible, SET X=X_" and kittens" > > G) malible, FOR I=$LENGTH(X):-1:1 WRITE $EXTRACT(X,I) > > H thru ZZZ) Lots more > > 2) data clustering, for the data created by FOR I=1:1:10 SET > > X($R(100))=I > > A) Evaluated, WRITE $DATA(X) > > B) Walked, SET Y="" FOR S J=$ORDER(X($G(J)) QUIT:J="" WRITE > > X(J)_":"_J,! > > C) Copied, MERGE Z=X > > D) Trimmed, SET J=$ORDER(X("")) KILL:J X(J) > > E) Killed, KILL X > > > > More later. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gregory Woodhouse" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 7:09 AM > > Subject: [Hardhats-members] MUMPS features > > > > > > > I've been thinking about the use of strings as a uniform data > > > representation in MUMPS and, to draw an analogy with baseball, it > > is > > > easy to come up with a hit (such as the ability to use the same > > > idioms, e.g., $G(X)="" for different kinds of data), or a double > > > (such as being able to intermix numbers and strings as subscripts > > to > > > the same array), but I can't think of a real home run. Thoughts? > > > > > > === > > > Gregory Woodhouse > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but > > > when there is nothing left to take away." > > > -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference & EXPO > > > September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle > > Practices > > > Agile & Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects & Teams * > > Testing & QA > > > Security * Process Improvement & Measurement * > > http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Hardhats-members mailing list > > > Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference & EXPO > > September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle > > Practices > > Agile & Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects & Teams * Testing > > & QA > > Security * Process Improvement & Measurement * > > http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf > > _______________________________________________ > > Hardhats-members mailing list > > Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members > > > > > > === > Gregory Woodhouse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > "Design quality doesn't ensure success, but design failure can ensure > failure." > > --Kent Beck > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference & EXPO > September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle Practices > Agile & Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects & Teams * Testing & QA > Security * Process Improvement & Measurement * http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf > _______________________________________________ > Hardhats-members mailing list > Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference & EXPO > September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle Practices > Agile & Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects & Teams * Testing & QA > Security * Process Improvement & Measurement * http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf > _______________________________________________ > Hardhats-members mailing list > Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members > ------------------------------------------------------- SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference & EXPO September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle Practices Agile & Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects & Teams * Testing & QA Security * Process Improvement & Measurement * http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf _______________________________________________ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members ------------------------------------------------------- SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference & EXPO September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle Practices Agile & Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects & Teams * Testing & QA Security * Process Improvement & Measurement * http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf _______________________________________________ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
