I agree with Cameron's message, but I'll add my two cents worth: 1) Is Mumps a serious limitation to complete EHR functionality, code maintainence, HL7, or PMS interfacing?
Absolutely not. I will go one step further than Cameron. I have heard that M is the #1 language used for EHR's. Epicare, which just contracted for EHR for Kaiser, is based on M, for example. 2) What is the fundamental difference between a relational database and a hierarchical database and how does that effect the end-user? (Should we even care? If so why?) Another difference is the way the data is stored. M data is stored in b-trees, as compared to flat tables (I believe). This leads to faster data acess, and less CPU power needed. Also, the database in M is called by some a "sparce array." This means that there are no "blank spaces" left for data to be later filled into. So with M, if there is no data present, then no space is wasted. I find this to lead to many many fields being defined for a given file. With a traditional database, having all these fields with empty/wasted space, would lead to huge database files. But with M, one can can store years of patient information on a relatively small disk. 3)How hard is it for non-Mumps IT personnel to learn Mumps/VistA and are there enough experienced VistA programmers (or former VistA programmers) to consult or be hired to non-VA projects? I am a physician and have taught myself M. It is a very simple language. I consider it to be a scripting language. But it gets the job done, and has run hospitals safely for decades. There are many people on the list that would like work as programmers, so I don't think there will be any limitation there. And when CMS releases VistAOffice, there should be even more interest and consultants available. 4) What other concerns should we have regarding adopting VistA? I think a factor here is how much you want to put into the system. It is not turn key at this point, although there are installers who can do the work for you. It is not going to have all the bells and whistles that commercial EMR's want you to pay for. It is not currently integrated with a billing system or a system for appointments. Hope that helps. Kevin On 9/19/05, Cameron Schlehuber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 1) There are several major commercial EHRs that use MUMPS. In fact, the > language was developed expressly FOR the health care environment. There > are > far more limitations (and serious ones at that) in most other languages and > especially strict SQL. > > 2) While MUMPS has been characterized as "hierarchical", the DBMS that > VistA > uses, VA FileMan, provides what is more accurately characterized as a > polymorphic view of the database. One can readily use relational > projections (indeed there are commercial add-ons that give a strict SQL > view > of the database). The more advantageous view through VA FileMan is more > like an object view of the data with abstract data types being highly > specialized for optimal use and performance. End users usually need not > care (except that performance of VA FileMan is demonstrably superior (there > are published reports) to SQL on the same hardware and configuration.) > > 3) Learning MUMPS is as simple as learning BASIC. Learning about all the > utilities and capabilities of the common services in VistA is a years long > process. And learning the functionality and setup for the clinical and > administrative functions in VistA would probably take several life-times. > Are there enough experienced programmers and application consultants? So > far I believe you'll currently pay more for a Java programmer. > > 4) Expect a long learning curve. Get help. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew > King > Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 10:59 AM > To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net > Subject: RE: [Hardhats-members] Wiki additions: [was: web evaluation tool] > > Here are some recurrent questions us nontechies have about VistA: > > 1) Is Mumps a serious limitation to complete EHR functionality, code > maintainence, HL7, or PMS interfacing? > > 2) What is the fundamental difference between a relational database and > a hierarchical database and how does that effect the end-user? (Should > we even care? If so why?) > > 3)How hard is it for non-Mumps IT personnel to learn Mumps/VistA and are > there enough experienced VistA programmers (or former VistA programmers) > to consult or be hired to non-VA projects? > > 4) What other concerns should we have regarding adopting VistA? > > I can add the answers to the Wiki. > > Thanks in advance, > > Matt King, MD > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Leo Zimmer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 5:25 AM > To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net > Subject: [Hardhats-members] Wiki additions: [was: web evaluation tool] > > > I added this link last night to a new section of the WorldVistA Wiki in > response to Matthew King's query. Another section should probably be > added with a more general emphasis... But we should be carefull to avoid > too many empty slots. > > How about a FAQ for "VistA Myth vs Fact"? > FHM (Frequently Heard Misinformation) > > > ---------- Original Message ----------- > From: "John Leo Zimmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net > Sent: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:52:22 -0500 > Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] web evaluation tool > > > > > > So here is a new Wiki page (tabula rasa for the moment) for > > Community Health Centers: (You may need to cut and past the full link) > > > > > http://openforum.worldvista.org/~forum/index.?title=Main_Page#Collaborat > ion_Tools > > > > Regards, > > JohnLeo Zimmer, MD, MA, ABFP > > Council Bluffs Community Health Centers > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF.Net email is sponsored by: > Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. > Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your > very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: > http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php > _______________________________________________ > Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF.Net email is sponsored by: > Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. > Download > it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your very own > Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php > _______________________________________________ > Hardhats-members mailing list > Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF.Net email is sponsored by: > Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. > Download > it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your very own > Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php > _______________________________________________ > Hardhats-members mailing list > Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members > ------------------------------------------------------- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. 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