Morozova, Nadezhda wrote:
Alexei,
Tutorials might be fine for mature projects, but I do not think ours is
ready for a big flow of users yet, that would require a tutorial.
So +1 for having a nice good tutorial ... one day.
If there are volunteers to write the tutorial now, I'd be happy to help
though.
Isn't that what the getting started page for DRLVM is? why take
information away? I agre, we should clean things up if they are wrong,
but as long as it's organized, we should keep stuff.
geir
Thank you,
Nadya Morozova
-----Original Message-----
From: Fedotov, Alexei A [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:40 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated
Guys,
I like good tutorials. I learned VIM using a tutorial. I don't need the
VIM tutorial any longer, but at the beginning it was useful.
+1 for maintain Getting Started as is with minor changes
Why Eclipse was chosen for the tutorial? Our goal was to use Harmony for
Harmony development. I liked that idea.
With best regards,
Alexei Fedotov,
Intel Java & XML Engineering
-----Original Message-----
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:29 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated
On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
Nadya,
One more proposal about "Getting Started": let's remove all current
content
and write something like following:
"To the moment we got rid of all major differences from other Java
implementations, so to use DRLVM you can just build it (here goes
link to
readme with build instructions) and run as any other Java VM. For
commonly
used command-line options please look into the Wiki page (link to
Salikh's
page or to the document)."
What do you think?
1 page to hold only 4 lines of text? :)
Thanks,
Pavel
On 10 Nov 2006 14:29:59 +0600, Egor Pasko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
Good day to you, Egor!
evening, dark and snowy evening :)
What do you say about the getting started doc?
I expressed it recently. General idea is that Harmony operates near
the same as other JSE implementations. Almost all specifics is in
extra options which we started collecting on Wiki for an extra
HOWTO-like page (BTW, thanks to Salikh for starting the page).
I believe, it is time to remove the "Getting Started". So, +1 to
Pavel
Ozhdikhin here.
BTW, I asked my dad to look at the website. Ideas for improvement
from
him:
1) site-local search is useful for a beginner. Hm, Tomcat has it
with
links to google search. We can have something as soon as we get to
the
desired TLP :)
2) it is not obvious that site misprints/problems should be
reported
to the mailing list. Commercial websites have something like
"support/suggestions mailto". We can point mailto to the mailing
list
:)
Thank you,
Nadya Morozova
-----Original Message-----
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:55 AM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
is
outdated
On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
Egor,
I generally like the idea of improving navigation over the site
-
there's never too much of that. However, I am not sure whether
we
need
yet another separate page for introductory/guidance info. I
hope
the
starting page + the generic pages we have are mostly fine.
However,
adding a link here and there to lead site visitors.
Getting started could be a more specific project-oriented page.
There,
you can tell people to go <link>download</link>,
<link>build</link>
the
code. After which, they can start using it just as any other
<link>RI-compatible</link> jdk. With the exceptions, see our
<link>wiki</link> pages.
To use the vm, readers might need to use the following
options...
If they want to read more on our VM, they can visit the
<link>component</link> page. If no website page contains an
answer
-
they can read <link>wiki faqa</link>.
.. or something like that :)
Nadya, I really appreciate our efforts :) But this morning I woke
up
and looked the site structure with the eye of a beginner. And
could
not find any obvius flaws in the main structure. Left-side
collection
of links is in a very good shape, good for beginner-level
navigation
and contains almost all links you listed here.
This was a really refreshing morning :)
I'll ask some guys who are new to the project, how they feel
about
the
site. And will report back, if I find something.
Refreshing morning is over, now back to work..
Thank you,
Nadya Morozova
-----Original Message-----
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:33 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with
DRL"
is
outdated
On the 0x21C day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
On 11/9/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Egor,
+1 for
Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a collection of
links
to
the
main website and other resources with short descriptions
("Site
Map"
or something) so that people are comfortable floating
around in
the
web.
We already have one page having links to the resources about
DRLVM:
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/index.html
Why do you think we need another one?
because it is only DRLVM.
I think of something like "site map", a collection of links.
Short
descriptions to some basic ones.
+1 for
* preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM" (omitting
the
word
"supported" intentionally)
Question on this one: will the page contain vm-only
options?
What
about
JIT, GC, other? I'd have them all in one place, but we have
separate
docs for EM/jit stuff. What do you say?
I think we can describe basic options for every component
there.
Only
those
that might be interesting for any user. The place for other
options
is
in
the run-time help or Developer's Guide for a component.
I thought of "most commonly used" options. They can possibly be
grouped by components, but not necessary. I would group them by
use-cases. BTW, "any user" is not an obvious substance for me.
So, the list is not obvious, we need to work it out.
I see it like HOWTOs. For example:
"-Xem:jet <- use only baseline JIT compiler"
"-Xem:opt <- use only optimising JIT compiler"
"-Xtrace:em <- print method compilation events"
The 'big' question is: "does 'any user' need to know about JITs
switching?". I say YES, it helps users to investigate problems,
which
helps us, developers, to react on users' input faster.
Other options? I can enlist the set of most commonly used by
me. If
many of us put their lists here, we can sum them up quickly and
make
a good (really useful) list of popular options. How about that?
BTW, the list should not be too big. 25 options is a kind of
limit
Thanks,
Pavel
Thank you,
Nadya Morozova
-----Original Message-----
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor
Pasko
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:51 AM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started
with
DRL"
is
outdated
On the 0x21B day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
All,
I'd like to share everyone's grief at the sight of
outdated
Getting
Started document. However, I'd not hurry to eliminate the
page
as
such.
We might reconsider some of its contents, change
structure,
and
update
individual bits, but please think carefully before
removing
the
page.
I think Getting Started (as the title shows) is aimed to
help
a
newbie
work with our vm. I know that many primarily interested
in
other
things
- conformance, architecture, internal specifics. However,
we
should
also
think how the vm is used. AFAIK, Getting started is now
the
*only*
doc
that tries to show how to use our vm. You tell people how
to
download
and build, but almost nothing about how to run and
configure
(with
the
exception of EM/JIT).
My suggestion would be to think of what you want to tell
people
about
usage - with or without eclipse specifics. And store this
info
on
the
page. I know it is hard - and I offer my help and support
in
this
burdensome initiative. Any thoughts? i might be
inobjective
and
emotional :)
Nadya,
I believe, almost everyone coming across Harmony knows how
to
use
J5SE. We are striving for this compatibility, and we are
happy
that
all DRLVM-specific pecularities are gone.
So, I vote for:
* removing the "Getting Started" (also because of
irritating
windows
screenshots:)
* preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM" (omitting
the
word
"supported" intentionally)
Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a collection of
links
to
the
main website and other resources with short descriptions
("Site
Map"
or something) so that people are comfortable floating
around in
the
web.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mikhail Fursov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 6:03 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started
with
DRL"
is
outdated
It's not a hard to write a documenation once, it's hard
to
support
it
:)
More problems:
1) -Xem options are obsolete.
2) -Xjit options are also obsolete.
3) Do we really need this page today? AFAIU users expect
Harmony
VM is
able
to run the same apps as RI..
?
On 11/8/06, Pavel Ozhdikhin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Hello all,
I've read through the "Getting Started with
DRL<
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started
.
html
"
document on the Harmony web and found it completely
outdated,
for
example:
- the term DRL is used instead of DRLVM
- eclipse.bat and eclipse.sh are obsolete - we don't
need
them
anymore
to run Eclipse. It can be started with DRLVM the
same
way
as
with
any
other
VM.
- We don't need to set PATH and LD_LIBRARY_PATH
anymore,
at
least
on
Windows/MSVC
- ij was renamed to java
We took a big step to unification with other Java VMs
and
now
we don't need anything specific to run Eclipse, for
example.
After
removing
all irrelevant info the document would contain only the
list
of
command-line
options. I think we can move this list to a separate
document
(Wiki,
Developer's Guide?) and remove the "Getting Started"
itself.
Any opinions?
Thanks,
Pavel
<
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started
.
html
--
Mikhail Fursov
--
Egor Pasko
--
Egor Pasko
--
Egor Pasko
--
Egor Pasko
--
Egor Pasko
