>-----Original Message----- >From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko >Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:40 PM >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org >Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is >outdated > >On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote: >> Ok, >> I'll use http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150 to get an >> initial patch for the getting started document, and we can then work to >> improve it. > >OK, I am "watching" it > >> Let's make it a short page with links to wiki and maybe some how-tos. > >To summarize: >* we agreed that there will be no eclipse screenshots (they are for > eclipse+drlvm page) >* we agreed that there should be something like "see what kind of > links we have" > >Am I right?
[Nadya] Yop, quite right. An additional enhancement would be to comment out copyrights and update info that is incorrect. Not sure I'll fix everything, but can give a start. Thanks for all your help. > >> Thank you, >> Nadya Morozova >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko >> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 11:10 AM >> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org >> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is >> outdated >> >> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote: >> > Egor, >> > I think we're mixing things up a bit, or at least our perceptions of >> > various docs. I'd not call what you're suggesting a tutorial - it's >> more >> > of a howto doc, right? We are lucky to have Salikh write this "How to >> > write a GC?" Doc - do you mean something similar for "DRLVM >> Command-line >> > Args Tutorial"? >> >> on Wikipedia: >> * A _how-to_ is an informal, often short, description of how to >> accomplish >> some specific task >> * A _tutorial_ is a document, software, or other media created for the >> purpose of instruction for any of a wide variety of tasks >> >> yes, I mix those terms :) >> >> > As suggested earlier, we can store drlvm+eclipse specifics on another >> > page = see JIRA 2009. cmd options reference is on wiki, but a short >> > howto will be marvelous - illustrating usage of common options, >> solving >> > typical problems by using our vm correctly, etc. >> > Does anybody volunteer to help? >> >> let's collect the options first. To choose between them for the howto >> >> > Thank you, >> > Nadya Morozova >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko >> > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 4:06 PM >> > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org >> > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is >> > outdated >> > >> > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote: >> > > Alexei, >> > > Tutorials might be fine for mature projects, but I do not think ours >> > is >> > > ready for a big flow of users yet, that would require a tutorial. >> > >> > we _are_ mature for a small tutorial :) >> > >> > > So +1 for having a nice good tutorial ... one day. >> > > If there are volunteers to write the tutorial now, I'd be happy to >> > help >> > > though. >> > >> > well, actually, I love tutorials too, especially the one for VIM :) >> > some contraversal inside me..fighting..done >> > >> > let's then say "A Short Eclipse Tutorial with Harmony", and then >> > "DRLVM Command-line Args Tutorial". Howabout that? >> > >> > > Thank you, >> > > Nadya Morozova >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: Fedotov, Alexei A [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:40 PM >> > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org >> > > Subject: RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with >> DRL" >> > is >> > > outdated >> > > >> > > Guys, >> > > >> > > I like good tutorials. I learned VIM using a tutorial. I don't need >> > the >> > > VIM tutorial any longer, but at the beginning it was useful. >> > > >> > > +1 for maintain Getting Started as is with minor changes >> > > >> > > Why Eclipse was chosen for the tutorial? Our goal was to use Harmony >> > for >> > > Harmony development. I liked that idea. >> > > >> > > With best regards, >> > > Alexei Fedotov, >> > > Intel Java & XML Engineering >> > > >> > > >-----Original Message----- >> > > >From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko >> > > >Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:29 PM >> > > >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org >> > > >Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" >> is >> > > >outdated >> > > > >> > > >On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote: >> > > >> Nadya, >> > > >> >> > > >> One more proposal about "Getting Started": let's remove all >> current >> > > >content >> > > >> and write something like following: >> > > >> >> > > >> "To the moment we got rid of all major differences from other >> Java >> > > >> implementations, so to use DRLVM you can just build it (here goes >> > > link to >> > > >> readme with build instructions) and run as any other Java VM. For >> > > >commonly >> > > >> used command-line options please look into the Wiki page (link to >> > > >Salikh's >> > > >> page or to the document)." >> > > >> >> > > >> What do you think? >> > > > >> > > >1 page to hold only 4 lines of text? :) >> > > > >> > > >> Thanks, >> > > >> Pavel >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> On 10 Nov 2006 14:29:59 +0600, Egor Pasko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > >> > > >> > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote: >> > > >> > > Good day to you, Egor! >> > > >> > >> > > >> > evening, dark and snowy evening :) >> > > >> > >> > > >> > > What do you say about the getting started doc? >> > > >> > >> > > >> > I expressed it recently. General idea is that Harmony operates >> > near >> > > >> > the same as other JSE implementations. Almost all specifics is >> in >> > > >> > extra options which we started collecting on Wiki for an extra >> > > >> > HOWTO-like page (BTW, thanks to Salikh for starting the page). >> > > >> > >> > > >> > I believe, it is time to remove the "Getting Started". So, +1 >> to >> > > Pavel >> > > >> > Ozhdikhin here. >> > > >> > >> > > >> > BTW, I asked my dad to look at the website. Ideas for >> improvement >> > > from >> > > >> > him: >> > > >> > 1) site-local search is useful for a beginner. Hm, Tomcat has >> it >> > > with >> > > >> > links to google search. We can have something as soon as we get >> > to >> > > the >> > > >> > desired TLP :) >> > > >> > 2) it is not obvious that site misprints/problems should be >> > > reported >> > > >> > to the mailing list. Commercial websites have something like >> > > >> > "support/suggestions mailto". We can point mailto to the >> mailing >> > > list >> > > >:) >> > > >> > >> > > >> > > Thank you, >> > > >> > > Nadya Morozova >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > >> > > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor >> Pasko >> > > >> > > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:55 AM >> > > >> > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org >> > > >> > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with >> > DRL" >> > > is >> > > >> > > outdated >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote: >> > > >> > > > Egor, >> > > >> > > > I generally like the idea of improving navigation over the >> > site >> > > - >> > > >> > > > there's never too much of that. However, I am not sure >> > whether >> > > we >> > > >need >> > > >> > > > yet another separate page for introductory/guidance info. I >> > > hope >> > > >the >> > > >> > > > starting page + the generic pages we have are mostly fine. >> > > However, >> > > >> > > > adding a link here and there to lead site visitors. >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > Getting started could be a more specific project-oriented >> > page. >> > > >There, >> > > >> > > > you can tell people to go <link>download</link>, >> > > <link>build</link> >> > > >> > > the >> > > >> > > > code. After which, they can start using it just as any >> other >> > > >> > > > <link>RI-compatible</link> jdk. With the exceptions, see >> our >> > > >> > > > <link>wiki</link> pages. >> > > >> > > > To use the vm, readers might need to use the following >> > > options... >> > > >> > > > If they want to read more on our VM, they can visit the >> > > >> > > > <link>component</link> page. If no website page contains an >> > > answer >> > > >- >> > > >> > > > they can read <link>wiki faqa</link>. >> > > >> > > > .. or something like that :) >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Nadya, I really appreciate our efforts :) But this morning I >> > woke >> > > up >> > > >> > > and looked the site structure with the eye of a beginner. And >> > > could >> > > >> > > not find any obvius flaws in the main structure. Left-side >> > > collection >> > > >> > > of links is in a very good shape, good for beginner-level >> > > navigation >> > > >> > > and contains almost all links you listed here. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > This was a really refreshing morning :) >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > I'll ask some guys who are new to the project, how they feel >> > > about >> > > >the >> > > >> > > site. And will report back, if I find something. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Refreshing morning is over, now back to work.. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Thank you, >> > > >> > > > Nadya Morozova >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > -----Original Message----- >> > > >> > > > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor >> > Pasko >> > > >> > > > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:33 PM >> > > >> > > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org >> > > >> > > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started >> with >> > > DRL" >> > > >is >> > > >> > > > outdated >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > On the 0x21C day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote: >> > > >> > > > > On 11/9/06, Morozova, Nadezhda >> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > > >wrote: >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > Egor, >> > > >> > > > > > +1 for >> > > >> > > > > > Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a collection >> of >> > > links >> > > >to >> > > >> > > > the >> > > >> > > > > > main website and other resources with short >> descriptions >> > > ("Site >> > > >> > > Map" >> > > >> > > > > > or something) so that people are comfortable floating >> > > around in >> > > >> > > the >> > > >> > > > web. >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > We already have one page having links to the resources >> > about >> > > >DRLVM: >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/index.html >> > > >> > > > > Why do you think we need another one? >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > because it is only DRLVM. >> > > >> > > > I think of something like "site map", a collection of >> links. >> > > Short >> > > >> > > > descriptions to some basic ones. >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > +1 for >> > > >> > > > > > * preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM" >> > (omitting >> > > the >> > > >> > > word >> > > >> > > > > > "supported" intentionally) >> > > >> > > > > > Question on this one: will the page contain vm-only >> > > options? >> > > >What >> > > >> > > > about >> > > >> > > > > > JIT, GC, other? I'd have them all in one place, but we >> > have >> > > >> > > separate >> > > >> > > > > > docs for EM/jit stuff. What do you say? >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > I think we can describe basic options for every component >> > > there. >> > > >> > > Only >> > > >> > > > those >> > > >> > > > > that might be interesting for any user. The place for >> other >> > > >options >> > > >> > > is >> > > >> > > > in >> > > >> > > > > the run-time help or Developer's Guide for a component. >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > I thought of "most commonly used" options. They can >> possibly >> > be >> > > >> > > > grouped by components, but not necessary. I would group >> them >> > by >> > > >> > > > use-cases. BTW, "any user" is not an obvious substance for >> > me. >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > So, the list is not obvious, we need to work it out. >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > I see it like HOWTOs. For example: >> > > >> > > > "-Xem:jet <- use only baseline JIT compiler" >> > > >> > > > "-Xem:opt <- use only optimising JIT compiler" >> > > >> > > > "-Xtrace:em <- print method compilation events" >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > The 'big' question is: "does 'any user' need to know about >> > JITs >> > > >> > > > switching?". I say YES, it helps users to investigate >> > problems, >> > > >which >> > > >> > > > helps us, developers, to react on users' input faster. >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > Other options? I can enlist the set of most commonly used >> by >> > > me. If >> > > >> > > > many of us put their lists here, we can sum them up quickly >> > and >> > > >make >> > > >> > > > a good (really useful) list of popular options. How about >> > that? >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > BTW, the list should not be too big. 25 options is a kind >> of >> > > limit >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > Thanks, >> > > >> > > > > Pavel >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > Thank you, >> > > >> > > > > > Nadya Morozova >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > -----Original Message----- >> > > >> > > > > > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of >> Egor >> > > Pasko >> > > >> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:51 AM >> > > >> > > > > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org >> > > >> > > > > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started >> > > with >> > > >DRL" >> > > >> > > is >> > > >> > > > > > outdated >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > On the 0x21B day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova >> > wrote: >> > > >> > > > > > > All, >> > > >> > > > > > > I'd like to share everyone's grief at the sight of >> > > outdated >> > > >> > > > Getting >> > > >> > > > > > > Started document. However, I'd not hurry to eliminate >> > the >> > > >page >> > > >> > > as >> > > >> > > > > > such. >> > > >> > > > > > > We might reconsider some of its contents, change >> > > structure, >> > > >and >> > > >> > > > update >> > > >> > > > > > > individual bits, but please think carefully before >> > > removing >> > > >the >> > > >> > > > page. >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > I think Getting Started (as the title shows) is aimed >> > to >> > > help >> > > >a >> > > >> > > > newbie >> > > >> > > > > > > work with our vm. I know that many primarily >> interested >> > > in >> > > >other >> > > >> > > > > > things >> > > >> > > > > > > - conformance, architecture, internal specifics. >> > However, >> > > we >> > > >> > > > should >> > > >> > > > > > also >> > > >> > > > > > > think how the vm is used. AFAIK, Getting started is >> now >> > > the >> > > >> > > *only* >> > > >> > > > doc >> > > >> > > > > > > that tries to show how to use our vm. You tell people >> > how >> > > to >> > > >> > > > download >> > > >> > > > > > > and build, but almost nothing about how to run and >> > > configure >> > > >> > > (with >> > > >> > > > the >> > > >> > > > > > > exception of EM/JIT). >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > My suggestion would be to think of what you want to >> > tell >> > > >people >> > > >> > > > about >> > > >> > > > > > > usage - with or without eclipse specifics. And store >> > this >> > > >info >> > > >> > > on >> > > >> > > > the >> > > >> > > > > > > page. I know it is hard - and I offer my help and >> > support >> > > in >> > > >> > > this >> > > >> > > > > > > burdensome initiative. Any thoughts? i might be >> > > inobjective >> > > >and >> > > >> > > > > > > emotional :) >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > Nadya, >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > I believe, almost everyone coming across Harmony knows >> > how >> > > to >> > > >use >> > > >> > > > > > J5SE. We are striving for this compatibility, and we >> are >> > > happy >> > > >> > > that >> > > >> > > > > > all DRLVM-specific pecularities are gone. >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > So, I vote for: >> > > >> > > > > > * removing the "Getting Started" (also because of >> > > irritating >> > > >> > > windows >> > > >> > > > > > screenshots:) >> > > >> > > > > > * preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM" >> > (omitting >> > > the >> > > >> > > word >> > > >> > > > > > "supported" intentionally) >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a collection >> of >> > > links >> > > >to >> > > >> > > > the >> > > >> > > > > > main website and other resources with short >> descriptions >> > > ("Site >> > > >> > > Map" >> > > >> > > > > > or something) so that people are comfortable floating >> > > around in >> > > >> > > the >> > > >> > > > web. >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > -----Original Message----- >> > > >> > > > > > > From: Mikhail Fursov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > > >> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 6:03 PM >> > > >> > > > > > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org >> > > >> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting >> started >> > > with >> > > >> > > DRL" >> > > >> > > > is >> > > >> > > > > > > outdated >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > It's not a hard to write a documenation once, it's >> hard >> > > to >> > > >> > > support >> > > >> > > > it >> > > >> > > > > > :) >> > > >> > > > > > > More problems: >> > > >> > > > > > > 1) -Xem options are obsolete. >> > > >> > > > > > > 2) -Xjit options are also obsolete. >> > > >> > > > > > > 3) Do we really need this page today? AFAIU users >> > expect >> > > >Harmony >> > > >> > > > VM is >> > > >> > > > > > > able >> > > >> > > > > > > to run the same apps as RI.. >> > > >> > > > > > > ? >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > On 11/8/06, Pavel Ozhdikhin >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > > >wrote: >> > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > Hello all, >> > > >> > > > > > > > I've read through the "Getting Started with >> > > >> > > > > > > > DRL< >> > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started >> > > . >> > > >> > > > > > > html >> > > >> > > > > > > > >" >> > > >> > > > > > > > document on the Harmony web and found it completely >> > > >outdated, >> > > >> > > > for >> > > >> > > > > > > example: >> > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > - the term DRL is used instead of DRLVM >> > > >> > > > > > > > - eclipse.bat and eclipse.sh are obsolete - we >> > don't >> > > >need >> > > >> > > > them >> > > >> > > > > > > anymore >> > > >> > > > > > > > to run Eclipse. It can be started with DRLVM the >> > > same >> > > >way >> > > >> > > as >> > > >> > > > with >> > > >> > > > > > > any >> > > >> > > > > > > > other >> > > >> > > > > > > > VM. >> > > >> > > > > > > > - We don't need to set PATH and LD_LIBRARY_PATH >> > > anymore, >> > > >at >> > > >> > > > least >> > > >> > > > > > > on >> > > >> > > > > > > > Windows/MSVC >> > > >> > > > > > > > - ij was renamed to java >> > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > We took a big step to unification with other Java >> VMs >> > > and >> > > >now >> > > >> > > > > > > > we don't need anything specific to run Eclipse, for >> > > >example. >> > > >> > > > After >> > > >> > > > > > > > removing >> > > >> > > > > > > > all irrelevant info the document would contain only >> > the >> > > >list >> > > >> > > of >> > > >> > > > > > > > command-line >> > > >> > > > > > > > options. I think we can move this list to a >> separate >> > > >document >> > > >> > > > (Wiki, >> > > >> > > > > > > > Developer's Guide?) and remove the "Getting >> Started" >> > > >itself. >> > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > Any opinions? >> > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks, >> > > >> > > > > > > > Pavel >> > > >> > > > > > > > < >> > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started >> > > . >> > > >> > > > > > > html >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > -- >> > > >> > > > > > > Mikhail Fursov >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > -- >> > > >> > > > > > Egor Pasko >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > -- >> > > >> > > > Egor Pasko >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > >> > > Egor Pasko >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > -- >> > > >> > Egor Pasko >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > > >> > > >-- >> > > >Egor Pasko >> > > >> > >> > -- >> > Egor Pasko >> > >> >> -- >> Egor Pasko >> > >-- >Egor Pasko
