Josef Svenningsson wrote:
Take the state monad for example. Should it be strict or lazy in the state that it carries around? What about the value component? ...both strict and lazy variants are useful.
I wrote:
Are those really needed?
...it wouldn't be very convenient, would it? Sometimes I find that I want strict state by default and then I don't want to sprinkle my code with seqs.
I don't think that is so inconvenient. Why do we need to define getStrict, putStrict, getsStrict, etc., when it is perhaps even more clear to write get $!, put $!., (gets . ($!)), etc.?. The same goes for Iavor's monad library.
Now, the challenge here is to design a library which doesn't explode in size from all the various possibilities for strictness or laziness.
I am now pretty convinced that the only thing we need is two versions of each monad, varying only the strictness of >>=. Then, of course, we will need runFoo for each, and evalFoo and execFoo for each state monad. And adaptors that allow you to run a lazy calculation inside a strict one and vice-versa. So we need an asStrict function and an asLazy function for each lazy/strict pair of monads. I think that is all we need. Not too bad. I am very impressed that we get most of that almost for free in Iavor's library.
The same challenge exists in many of the Data.* libraries. I think this is very important.
I am now a bit more optimistic. Has anyone looked through them?
http://www.cs.chalmers.se/~josefs/monadlib/ ...instantiating this with different pair types with different strictness properties will give us total control over strictness for state and value.
Hmm. Your current implementation doesn't seem to do it that way. You use tuples for both the lazy version and the strict version, and each defines its own Monad instance for all Pair types. So it is impossible to use both in the same module, even with hiding. I tried to work on this a little. I defined a strict Pair type and tried to find a single Monad instance that will give the right strictness for both if you just vary between lazy and strict pairs. We need that both of the following converge in constant stack space: take 100 $ evalState (repeatM $ modify (+1)) 0 execStateStrict (replicateM_ 100000 $ modify (+1)) 0 (You can verify that this is true if you use the standard evalState, and replace execStateStrict with runIdentity . execStateT.) I was unable to hit upon the right combination of seqs in the Monad instance. Is it really possible? Of course, you could use a newtype of tuples and define separate Monad instances. But then we are not gaining anything over just defining the lazy and strict monads directly. Regards, Yitz _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
