agreed with Tikhon's points, they say it way better than I could On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 4:52 AM, Tikhon Jelvis <tik...@jelv.is> wrote:
> Personally, I would not be against a *short and simple* code of conduct > that specifically addresses issues we have seen. I'm imagining clear > guidelines that help people express themselves in a thoughtful and polite > way. Something in the style of the Hacker News commenting guidelines[1] (at > least the first four; the rest are specific to HN/Reddit-like sites). > > One of the best examples I've seen in the wild had a single rule: no > personal attacks. It's simple to understand and follow with no risk of > stifling or derailing real discussions, and yet unambiguously rules out the > majority of rude comments I see online (ignoring spam and outright > trolling). > > I do *not* like Rust's code of conduct specifically. It does not provide > clear guidelines on civility/politeness and covers too many other things, > including a lot of (often political) baggage. Why is the idea that > "everything is a tradeoff" enshrined as a rule? The rule on politeness is > clearly deemphasized: "Please be kind and courteous. There’s no need to be > mean or rude." is so vague it may as well not be in the code of conduct. We > should *assume* people set out to be kind and courteous and help them do > that consistently. The "Citizen Code of Conduct" they link to has even more > baggage and I believe it should *not* serve as the basis for anything we > might adopt as a community. > > [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html see section "In > Comments" > > On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 1:13 AM, Simon Peyton Jones via Haskell-community < > haskell-community@haskell.org> wrote: > >> Friends >> >> >> >> I second what Tom says below. >> >> >> >> Almost everyone expresses their views with respect, even when >> disagreeing. The exceptions are (in my guess) mostly unintentional, at >> least in the extent of the offence caused. That does not make them >> unimportant, because a slow slippage in our collective standards is, over >> time corrosive. But it does mean that we can draw breath, as Tom has >> helpfully done here, and without condemning anyone reset our standards. >> >> >> >> I’ve been talking to a couple of people about whether it would be useful >> to have an explicit Haskell Community Code of Conduct. Many online >> communities have one (e.g. Rust >> <https://www.rust-lang.org/en-US/conduct.html>), and it might be helpful >> for everyone to have a concrete baseline rather than an unwritten >> standard. Any views on that? >> >> >> >> Simon >> >> >> >> *From:* Libraries [mailto:libraries-boun...@haskell.org] *On Behalf Of *Tom >> Murphy >> *Sent:* 02 April 2017 19:18 >> *To:* Fumiaki Kinoshita <fumiex...@gmail.com> >> *Cc:* libraries <librar...@haskell.org> >> *Subject:* Civility notes (was "Traversable instances for (,,) a b") >> >> >> >> Hi Fumiaki! >> >> I agree with you that some poorly-chosen words by a few people have >> soured this conversation, but please don't let that turn you completely off >> of the productive conversation most of us are attempting to have! I think >> it's largely been successful, too: even if many of us haven't changed our >> -1/+1 votes, I for one have had my ideas challenged and have a more nuanced >> view than before talking with everyone here. >> >> Henning and Edward are two examples (one from each side of the +1/-1 >> chasm) who have been aided by this discussion, in making important progress >> to finding a middle ground (each in the form of proposed compiler changes). >> >> To the rest of us: Fumiaki regretting having posted here is a pretty >> stark example of why speaking politely matters. People being scared away >> and feeling unwelcome is a real phenomenon, and we need to do our part to >> fix it. I'd propose: >> >> - If you haven't read it already, SPJ recently wrote a heartfelt >> letter on the subject [0]. We've gotten better since then, but clearly >> we're not finished. >> >> - Civility is a norm, and norms sometimes need to be enforced. From >> a distance, we all look bad (and unwelcoming!) if anyone is hostile and we >> don't make it clear it's not acceptable. Speak up! That said, everyone >> makes mistakes - try to give people space to apologize and move on. >> >> - If someone says something insulting to you, please take that as a >> sign to become more polite, not less so. The downward spiral is real. >> >> >> >> If you're called out for saying something regrettable (again, >> regardless of if you're +1 or -1 on this issue), *please* take our desire >> for civil conversation seriously. Responses like (I'm paraphrasing, and not >> trying to cite anyone specifically): "It was a joke (mostly)" and "It's >> your fault if you didn't get the joke" are worse than not writing anything >> at all. Ideal would be a quick "Sorry!" >> >> Thanks, all! >> >> Tom >> >> >> [0] https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell/2016-September/024995.html >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 12:11 PM, Fumiaki Kinoshita <fumiex...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> The discussion has diverged to flaming due to a few offensive people. I >> guess I shouldn't have posted a proposal here, I should have submitted a >> patch instead. >> >> >> >> 2017-03-23 19:53 GMT+09:00 Fumiaki Kinoshita <fumiex...@gmail.com>: >> >> It's surprising that they are missing (forgive me, I'm not here to make >> people grumpy). >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Libraries mailing list >> librar...@haskell.org >> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/libraries >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Haskell-community mailing list >> Haskell-community@haskell.org >> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-community >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Libraries mailing list > librar...@haskell.org > http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/libraries > >
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