So far, I have received three positive responses on starting the new Haskell-Edu mailing list, and no negative responses.
In the latest response, the respondent suggested that I post another message to this mailing list advising readers on how to react. Basically, the Haskell.org mailing list administrator, Simon Marlow, had originally suggested that I ask for feedback on my idea from this mailing list, and wait for the discussion to proceed to Haskell-Cafe, so for those interested in this idea, please respond either in this thread or, after a few rounds, in Haskell-Cafe on whether you agree, disagree, feel neutral, or have mixed feelings regarding this idea. In any case, as the above-mentioned respondent suggested, rapid responses to questions on the new mailing list will probably prove vital to keeping it alive. Participation by educators using Haskell, once Haskell-Edu is started, would be most welcome. Please post your responses initially in this thread. After a few rounds, this discussion will probably move to Haskell-Cafe. -- Benjamin L. Russell --- On Tue, 7/1/08, Benjamin L. Russell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Benjamin L. Russell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [Haskell] on starting Haskell-Edu, a new education-related > Haskell-related mailing list > To: "The Haskell Mailing List" <haskell@haskell.org> > Date: Tuesday, July 1, 2008, 8:37 PM > I am interested in starting a new mailing list on > Haskell.org, aimed mainly at liberal arts teachers and > elementary-level learners of Haskell, called > "Haskell-Edu: The Haskell Educational Mailing > List." This new mailing list would be guided by the > principle that Haskell is useful not just in research, but > also in teaching programming as part of a liberal arts > education, on a par with Scheme. When I suggested the idea > of this mailing list to Simon Marlow, the Haskell.org > mailing list administrator, he suggested that I post this > idea on The Haskell Mailing List, so I am posting it here > to ask for feedback. > > The main purposes of this new (proposed) mailing list would > be as follows: > > 1) To provide a primarily non-research-oriented discussion > forum to serve the needs of users wishing to focus on the > uses of Haskell in education, such as in high school and in > introductory computer science college courses, as opposed to > in research. > > 2) To provide a primarily non-research-oriented discussion > forum to serve the needs of non-computer-science students > of Haskell who wish to focus on Haskell as a language for > learning programming as part of a well-rounded a liberal > arts education, as opposed to an > engineering/mathematics/science-oriented education. > > Currently, there are two main Haskell mailing lists: > > a) The Haskell Mailing List, currently used mainly for > announcements and for non-beginner discussions > > b) The Haskell-Cafe, currently ostensibly used for > everything else, but in fact used primarily for serious > academic computer-science research-oriented discussion of > the language Haskell. > > Neither mailing list addresses Haskell as a tool for > teaching functional programming as part of a liberal arts > education, and while The Haskell Cafe is ostensibly > responsible for addressing beginner questions, I have > witnessed several instances in which new users who were not > familiar with the academic culture of The Haskell Cafe have > been frowned upon for either posting messages that did not > assume enough mathematical background, or for posting > messages that were written in a tongue-in-cheek style, and > that therefore did not fit into the serious tone of the > mailing list. > > (For example, a few months ago, one poster received a > private e-mail message from another poster asking the > former not to "pollute" The Haskell-Cafe Mailing > List for assuming that screen pixel resolution was somehow > related to the precision of an algorithm that picked points > randomly from a square in approximating pi. Avoiding this > question required the knowledge that screen resolution > could be considered independently from the precision of the > algorithm itself, but while this point may be elementary to > mathematicians and researchers, the poster was not familiar > enough with the issue to grasp this immediately, and > received the above-mentioned response.) > > This new mailing list is intended to cover both the issue > of teaching Haskell as part of a liberal arts curriculum, > and of answering beginner questions about Haskell from > students who may not have a sophisticated mathematics > background. The primary audience of this new mailing list > would be educators and students in a liberal arts > curriculum who are interested in studying Haskell for > studying functional programming. Currently, the language > Scheme is often used in this context (even though Scheme is > not a true functional programming language), but Haskell has > recently been gaining ground rapidly as a programming > language in industry as well, and many students of Haskell > may either not have a computer science background, or may > not have a sophisticated mathematical background. Posts > from such users may tend to irritate serious researchers, > who are impatient and hard-pressed for time to find > valuable information to aid their research, but may be > welcome > in a more education-focused context. > > It would seem that creating a new mailing list, > Haskell-Edu, focusing on using Haskell in teaching > programming in a liberal arts context, and fielding > questions from students in that context, would help > increase the scope of Haskell users, and help spread > knowledge about Haskell to potential future users in > industry. Teachers in a liberal arts curriculum could > discuss teaching Haskell in a non-research context, and > students of Haskell with a liberal arts-related background > would be able to ask elementary questions to educators > willing to discuss such questions, without being expected > to have a sophisticated mathematical or computer science > background. > > -- Benjamin L. Russell > > --- On Sat, 6/28/08, Simon Marlow > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > From: Simon Marlow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: Re: on starting a new Haskell-related mailing > list > > To: "Benjamin L. Russell" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Cc: "John Peterson" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: Saturday, June 28, 2008, 4:20 AM > > Hi Benjamin, > > > > Normally we create new mailing lists when the new list > has > > a narrow > > focus and covers a clearly unoccupied niche. In this > case > > you're > > proposing a list that is very broad, and so I think it > > needs discussion > > amongst the community before we create the list, so > that we > > can keep a > > consistent strategy. > > > > That's not to say that I disagree with your > proposal. > > But it doesn't > > seem immediately clear what the focus would be, and > why > > haskell-cafe > > shouldn't serve the purpose. One thing that > isn't > > clear is whether the > > list you're proposing is for people interested in > > *teaching* Haskell (in > > which case I'd say it's a great idea), or > people > > *learning* Haskell (in > > which case I'd consider carefully whether > haskell-cafe > > shoudn't be > > serving that need). That's something you need to > > clarify when proposing > > this list to the community. > > > > So I suggest you send this proposal out to > > haskell@haskell.org in the > > first instance, and see what response you get. > Discussion > > should move > > to haskell-cafe quickly. > > > > Cheers, > > Simon > > > > Benjamin L. Russell wrote: > > > Greetings, > > > > > > John Peterson suggested that I send you an e-mail > > message requesting you to perform set-up of a new > > Haskell-related mailing list that I plan to > > moderate/administrate, since he said that you are the > > administrator of the mailing lists on Haskell.org. > > > > > > My name is Benjamin L. Russell, and I am > interested in > > starting a new mailing list on Haskell, which I plan > to call > > Haskell-Edu, specifically devoted to non-research > > beginner-level educational matters, guided by the > > philosophy that Haskell should be more accessible to > > non-computer science major students. > > > > > > This topic is not covered by any of the other > mailing > > lists. I have regularly read both Haskell and > Haskell-Cafe > > for the past six months or so, but the former is > devoted to > > announcements, and the latter de facto to research > matters. > > Also, the general tone of Haskell-Cafe is overly > academic > > and research-oriented, and I feel that this creates an > > unnecessary learning curve for non-computer science > majors > > interested in learning Haskell. > > > > > > Since John Peterson recommended that I request > you to > > set-up the mailing list on Haskell.org, could you > please > > set it whenever you have free time, as follows: > > > > > > Name of Mailing List: Haskell-Edu > > > E-mail Address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Description: The Haskell-Edu Mailing > List: > > Discussion About Non-research Issues on Haskell in > > Education > > > > > > Could you please advise me on what I need to do > to > > start this mailing list? Should I host it on > haskell.org, > > or just start it by myself using a non-Haskell.org > mailing > > list service? Also, how should I have it listed in > the > > "www.haskell.org Mailing Lists" > > (http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo) page for the > > benefit of other members of the Haskell community? > > > > > > Thank you very much for your time and > cooperation. > > > > > > Sincerely yours, > > > > > > Benjamin L. Russell > > > > > > --- On Fri, 6/27/08, John Peterson > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > >> From: John Peterson > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >> Subject: RE: on starting a new > Haskell-related > > mailing list > > >> To: "Benjamin L. Russell" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >> Date: Friday, June 27, 2008, 12:05 AM > > >> Hi Benjamin, > > >> > > >> There's no problem starting a new mailing > > list. Simon > > >> Marlow is the administrator of our lists - if > you > > drop him > > >> and email he'll do the setup for > Haskell.org. > > Once the > > >> list is going, you can go into the wiki and > add it > > to the > > >> appropriate pages. > > >> > > >> We've had a bunch of these special > interest > > lists and > > >> most of them go dead after a few months but > you > > never know > > >> ... > > >> > > >> > > >> John > > > > > > --- On Thu, 6/26/08, Benjamin L. Russell > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > >> From: Benjamin L. Russell > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >> Subject: on starting a new Haskell-related > mailing > > list > > >> To: "John Peterson" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >> Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 4:37 PM > > >> Greetings, > > >> > > >> My name is Benjamin L. Russell, and I am > > interested in > > >> starting a new mailing list on Haskell, which > I > > plan to > > >> call Haskell-Edu, specifically devoted to > > non-research > > >> beginner-level educational matters, guided by > the > > >> philosophy that Haskell should be more > accessible > > to > > >> non-computer science major students. (This > > message is > > >> being addressed to you because I had already > sent > > the > > >> portion below twice to other administrators > at > > Haskell.org, > > >> first to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and then > to > > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED], but had not > received a > > response > > >> on either occasion.) > > >> > > >> This topic is not covered by any of the other > > mailing > > >> lists. I have regularly read both Haskell > and > > Haskell-Cafe > > >> for the past six months or so, but the former > is > > devoted to > > >> announcements, and the latter de facto to > research > > matters. > > >> Also, the general tone of Haskell-Cafe is > overly > > academic > > >> and research-oriented, and I feel that this > > creates an > > >> unnecessary learning curve for non-computer > > science majors > > >> interested in learning Haskell. > > >> > > >> Could you please advise me on what I need to > do to > > start > > >> this mailing list? Should I host it on > > haskell.org, or > > >> just start it by myself using a > non-Haskell.org > > mailing > > >> list service? Also, how should I have it > listed > > in the > > >> "www.haskell.org Mailing Lists" > > >> (http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo) > page for > > the > > >> benefit of other members of the Haskell > community? > > >> > > >> Thank you very much for your time and > cooperation. > > >> > > >> Sincerely yours, > > >> > > >> Benjamin L. Russell > _______________________________________________ > Haskell mailing list > Haskell@haskell.org > http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell _______________________________________________ Haskell mailing list Haskell@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell
